Jesus is Caesar

[thorstenczub]

something "analog" ?

jesus never existed.
he is the rest of a religion that began in rome under caesar .

see :

http://www.carotta.de/eindex.html
http://www.carotta.de/subseite/texte/esumma.html

Julius Caesar, son of Venus and founder of the Roman Empire, was elevated to the status of Imperial God, Divus Julius, after his violent death. The cult that surrounded him dissolved as Christianity surfaced.

A cult surrounding Jesus Christ, son of God and originator of Christianity, appeared during the second century. Early historians, however, never mentioned Jesus and even now there is no actual proof of his existence.

On the one hand, an actual historical figure missing his cult, on the other, a cult missing its actual historical figure: intriguing mirror images.

Is Jesus Christ really the historical manifestation of Divus Julius? Are the Gospels built on the life of Caesar, just as the first Christian churches were built on the foundations of antique temples?

Corruptions in the copying of texts, misinterpretations in translations—Gallia transposed to Galilaea or Caesar’s murderer, the conspirator (Cassius) Longinus, becoming the centurion Longinus stabbing Jesus on the cross—and the transformation of iconography from Roman to Christian have been traced to their origins: the Gospel proves to be the history of the Roman Civil War, a ‘mis-telling’ of the Life of Caesar—from the Rubicon to his assassination—mutated into the narrative of Jesus: from the Jordan to his crucifixion.

***

‘Your book, which I have studied against the backdrop of the sea, calm and then turbulent; under morning breezes and fresh nocturnal ones; and beneath the waxing moon of these past fifteen days of vacation,
has been like an (anti-)revelation to me, with the description of the hidden side (or the reverse) of an entire epoch, which I hardly suspected was there.’
– a reader –

‘This report is of the same order of importance as the scientific discoveries of Darwin and Galileo… Carotta’s discovery will turn the entire history of civilization upside down.’
– Paul Cliteur, Ph.D., (CV, pub.) Dutch Television –

‘ ‘The reader can experience all this step by step, because the bulk of the book in question consists simply of the report of this investigation. There is no need to rely on conclusions; the genesis of these conclusions can be verified very precisely. Well, of course you should not expect otherwise from a scientific publication, but the actual practice shows that of all specialists those who research Jesus always tumble into the pitfalls of their prejudices.’
– Peter Veldhuisen, Het Parool –

‘Does the passion story have its origins in a misunderstood version of a Vita Caesaris on the last days of this dictator and high priest of Rome, who was also known for his clemency and who was celebrated as a benefactor of the people? That sounds like an absolute nonsense. However, Carotta substantiates this theory with numerous proofs.’
– Thomas von der Dunk, Ph.D., (CV, pub.) Vrij Nederland
[ review of T. H. v. d. Dunk in English translation ]–

‘Reading the overwhelming amount of material Carotta provides to support his thesis, it has to be admitted that he is not skating on thin ice. In my opinion this book presents us with the key to unlocking a lot of mysteries on the spread of Christianity in the Roman Empire.’
– Paul Cliteur, Ph.D., (CV, pub.) De Humanist –

‘The Christian mystery has been unlocked, the code of the New Testament has been cracked.’
– die tageszeitung, Berlin –

‘I think this book provides us with a new opening to the research on the accounts of Jesus’ life, an extremely important one…
To me this is the book of the year.’
– Andreas Kinneging, Ph.D., (CV, pub.) Dutch Radio –

‘But perhaps Jesus has very well existed historically. In the person of Julius Caesar. And the life narrative of Jesus as it is told to us in the Gospel is simply that of Julius Caesar.’
– Bert van Nieuwenhuizen, Utrechts Nieuwsblad / GPD –

‘When Francesco Carotta asks if Julius Caesar and Jesus Christ are the same person, a question which is rhetorical to him, he participates in the development of normative future models which the elite of church and state considers undesirable, but for the average citizen who wants to explore his own future himself, this is experienced as inspirational.’
– W.J. de Ridder, Ph.D., (CV, pub.) Inaugural Address
Faculty of Future Studies, University of Twente –

‘Carotta writes with respect for his subject, even with religious discretion, with witty irony but also with poetry. Even if one cannot or will not follow the author’s conclusions, one learns much about Roman religiousness, which became the basis of the development of the Christian faith in the European cultural environment.’
– Rev. Stephan Ch. Kessler S J, Dr. theol., (CV, pub.)
advisory report for ORF (Vienna) –

‘A book with a perspective on the European heritage that will remain indelibly printed in your memory.’
– Willem Dijkhuis, Het Financieele Dagblad –

there is an american author also writing a theory like this, but not depending on carotta.
his name is jospeph atwill:

http://s13.invisionfree.com/THE_UNHIVED ... /t3601.htm

"Caesar's messiah"




so jesus is the shadaow of the romains inventing a PACIFISTIC jewish messiah,
to control the terroristic jews in their colonies.

julius caesar was the root religion and root person this new religion was
founded. and maybe titus or whoever used "Flavius Josephus" to do the job.
to create a myth based messianic religion to allow the romains to integrate
the jews into a useful tax paying peaceful group of the romain empire.
this all happened historically seen 100 years before the "jesus" should have
been existed. and it happened in rome / israel.
no wonder the catholic church was placed in rome too.
when the romain empire died, the romain catholic church continued it
as the romain christian believe is based on the myth the romains
invented.



caesars funeral is jesus cruxification:


Resurrection of Caesar on a historic coin of that age:



Caesar is the original. Jesus is the copy.

historically the closest source. same location. same time. same believe.

A proper ascension is not missing with Caesar either. One sees it here on the left. On the right there is the oldest preserved ascension of Christ as Helios [from the necropolis under the Basilica of St. Peter’s in Rome: in the mausoleum of the Iulii].
Both ascend to heaven in a chariot pulled by horses.

[Hood]

The problem (may be your) is that Jesus Christ existed and is living.

[thorstenczub]

The problem (may be your) is that Jesus Christ existed and is living.

Jesus Christ did not exist as jewish messias.

he was transposed by a religion coming from rome, BEFORE.
caesar was a god when he lived. and he became a more bigger god after they stabbed him down.
his funeral is the ORIGIN of the cruxification story of jesus.
his religion is the ORIGIN of christianism.
so if we talk about jesus, we mean caesar.

in opposite to jesus, caesar existed.
we know where he lived. what he did. what he said.
everything about caesar is written down. we know EXACTLY who wrote it down.

the gospels were MADE by rewriting original caesar stories into kind of jewish transponation stories.

this way everything ceasar said, became jesus saying, just translated into jewish context.

this has been done because the jewish groups in the romain empire should have been
integrated. the idea was to give them a messias story to make them shut up and pay
the romains what the romains wanted.

so this is the reason "jesus" told his friends to pay caesar. and to behave peaceful against the romains (in opposite to other jewish leaders who declared war against the romains).

the origins of our misinterpretated dates is the sol invictus and the brumalia.

romain history, romain religion, romain gods like caesar, are the predecessor
of the christian religion. romain stuff is the origin. christianism is the copy.

its cloning.
little changes due to translation errors/mistakes.
transposition from romain locations into bethlehem, jerusalem, and and and.

all the romain names appear transposed in the bible.

When Caesar was assasinated, his religion
Divus Iulius and Parens optime meritus
changed into christianism.

the origin of this christianism is the religion of caesar.

see:
http://www.carotta.de/subseite/texte/jwc_e/pv.html

Parens, optimus, meritus—ktistês, aristos, chrêstos. Three words, each of them (the last one is very telling) resembling in appearance and pronunciation that of another word, christos, ‘anointed’, which later emerged as the title of Jesus.[43] The possibility of confusing chrêstos with christos was so easy and natural, that the spelling with an ‘ê’ instead of an ‘i’ is still to be found in some writings of the Classics (for example Tacitus’ chrestiani which was changed to chrestiani, or Suetonius’ chresto as well, interpreted by some as Christus) and also in the New Testament in various places.

see further:
http://www.carotta.de/subseite/texte/jw ... tents.html

[thorstenczub]

Divus Iulius

Caesar was God’s son from birth: it is well known that the Iulii claimed Venus as their ancestor, through Aeneas and his son Ascanius, whom the Romans also called Ilus or Iulus. As a youth, he should have been a flamen Dialis—the high priest of Jupiter—but he was prevented from attaining this office by political opposition. Instead, he soon after became the highest priest: pontifex maximus. And while he was yet living it had been decreed that he—by then ruler of the whole world—should be posthumously numbered amongst the gods: as Divus Iulius. Even his murder could not preclude this: his adoptive son Octavianus could quickly call himself Divi Filius, ‘God’s Son’—thereby Caesar became the ‘Father God’, on a par with Jupiter himself.[326]

Temples were built to him throughout the entire Empire and even beyond: the caesarea. On top of this he was to be synnaos to all other deities, i.e. his statues had to be placed in each of the other temples—a tolerant monotheistic god.

The liturgy consisted of the celebration of the anniversaries of his victories, which had been appraised, and praised, as miracles. Because he had won more than three hundred of them, and because for the greatest of them more than one day was set aside in thanksgiving, there was something to celebrate virtually every day. His posthumous victory, however, became the greatest celebration; the victory gained over his murderers by his wandering spirit after the Ides of March: treason, passion, funeral, furor populi, apotheosis—his Easter.

This worldwide cult disappears, with a conspicuous inconspicuousness—as if swallowed by the earth, just as Christianity appears. Yet not altogether without a trace, because at Easter, which like the Ides of March falls in the springtime, the Christian liturgy follows the ritual of Caesar’s funeral.[327] Just as Christianity borrowed much from the cult of the emperor, regardless. The capital of Christendom is still Rome, and Caesar’s centre of power her heart.

The cultic books of Divus Iulius have not survived, and we only hear of Caesar through historians. Accordingly, we think of him as a man of history. General, dictator, writer, epicurean, revolutionary—everyone knows this. But as Pontifex Maximus, son of God and God—he is known only to specialists—and even they tend to forget it. Divus Iulius is blanked out.

[...]

Complementary asymmetry

Objectively, we can say that Caesar is a historical figure who as a god has vanished without leaving a trace. Jesus, on the other hand, is a god whose historical figure cannot be found.
A striking complementary asymmetry. It is as if we are dealing with the same figure, one that has two faces, like the head of Janus. Could it be that the Gospel is the ‘post-Easter’ preaching of Divus Iulius of which the ‘pre-Easter’ historical version can be found in the writings of the ancient authors? That Jesus therefore is Divus Iulius as he is reflected in the East/West mirror? Is Jesus the icon of Caesar? Do the Gospels bear the same relationship to Divus Iulius as the first Christian churches do to the antique temples from which they were built and on whose foundations they stand?

source:
http://www.carotta.de/subseite/texte/jw ... html#divus

[Hood]

The problem (may be your) is that Jesus Christ existed and is living.

Jesus Christ did not exist as jewish messias.

You are using wrong sources of information. Internet is not best source of info for that what happenned 2000 years ago.
We can find such info in Internet that Earth is governed by aliens.

Try to find chessgames from 30 years ago you will not find most of them.

The romans chronicles written by Flavius and Plinius Junior are mentioning Jesus Christ.
The 'Letters of St. Paul' ,previous famous judaists and Christians prosecutor, are dated for 50-60 year after Christ.
Jews has not acknowledged Jesus Christ as their Messiah and judged him for death . You can find that in their history books.
The Evangelias were written in 1st Century.

Lets God take a care about you.

[thorstenczub]

yes. some mention chrestos. some passages are faked.
and none of the sources mentioning him, have seen him. its hear said.

if he would have been such an impact, why is there nobody mentioning him at the time he lived ??

reason is: he is caesar.

by calling him JESUS you will not find him in history. but read caesars sayings and you will see that each word of caesar is in the bible.
and the differences sometimes are translation mistakes.

[Peter C]

There are plenty of historical references that say Jesus existed as a human.

Any historian who studied that period will tell you he did. Sadly, the majority of them won't say he is LORD, but he did exist.

Peter

[thorstenczub]

no there are not plenty of historical references.
and i have no clue how you could come to the conclusion that there are plenty.

there is none. nada. those who mention him, or those passages you maybe talk about, are faked.
by later christian insertions.

the rest is a misunderstanding.

relate this to the amount of data you have about a historical person like caesar.

can you smell/feal recognize the difference between a real historical person like caesar
and a clone(product) like jesus ?

[Peter C]

So... you're a conspiracy theorist?

What evidence do you have that all references to him were faked? That seems like a rather large claim to make.

Peter

[thorstenczub]

So... you're a conspiracy theorist?

What evidence do you have that all references to him were faked? That seems like a rather large claim to make.

Peter

you ask me about EVIDENCE for that existence of jesus ?
there is no reference in a non biblical or non christian source.

all the christian reference appeared LONG AFTER his death.
so even in the faked christian sources there is NO reference from a time where he
should have lived.
it seems this person was not important, not even for his fellows to write it down.
the earliest letter of paul or jacob date arround 50.

historian Justus von Tiberias is not mentioning jesus.
jewish historian Philon von Alexandria, not mentioning jesus.
flavius josephus names 20 people who have the name jesus.
but none of them was in any way related to a jesus of the bible.
jesus was a common name in that time.

goethe says about jesus:

"Märchen von Christus"

"Die Geschichte des guten Jesus habe ich nun so satt, dass ich sie von keinem, außer von ihm selbst, hören möchte."

Napoleon, Friedrich the great, Nietzsche:

"Zum Christentum wird man geboren, man muss dazu nur krank genug sein."

they all do not believe jesus existed.

even the philosoph and christian justin (100-165)
claims via a person in one of his stories:

"Ihr habt euch eine Wahnvorstellung gemacht. Ihr habt euch selbst Christus gebildet."

there is a passage in a copy of flavius josephus books , which was faked by
christian of the medieval, 11th century !!, because of word of eusebius

historians identify this passage as forgery.
the style of the text does not fit into the context.

neither
Justin (150), nor Tertullian (200) or Cyprian (250) quotes
this later faked passage.
how could they. the faked passage came much later
into the flavius josephus text. it was not in the editions
justin, tertullian or cyprian KNEW.

so where is your EVIDENCE ?
there is none.

further there is a copy of the flavius josephus text from
Gerhard Johann Vossius, dutch theologian, 17th century,
that does NOT contain the faked passage.

the todays christian theologie therefore is not seeing
jesus anymore as a historical person !!

what you claim that scientists or historians or even theologians
would see jesus as a real person is a plein lie and has nothing to do with
state of the arts science.

what you claim is your BELIEVE.
not what scientists, historians or theologians say.