TCEC LIVE - Division I, Season 1 - All the top engines!

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Jeremy Bernstein
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Re: TCEC LIVE - Division I, Season 1 - All the top engines!

Post by Jeremy Bernstein » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:40 pm

BB+ wrote:
Rybka 4 appears to analyze ...a2 as second choice for a short while, but then discards it entirely (...Kf7 takes its place). Houdini would have played ...a2. Naum 4.2 agrees with Houdini. HIARCS can't decide between ...Kf7 and ...Nxc6 for a while, although it comes around at around depth 22, discarding Nxc6 and evaluating both ...Kf7 and ...a2 at around 1.25. Rybka 3 reaches an identical conclusion as her big sister. Stockfish agrees with Rybka in this matter, as well.
I might point out that I analysed this with both IvanHoe and ComStock with all the TripleBases, and in each case backed up the score after 96...a2 to 0.00 (after playing forward to a draw), and the same with a +6 score after 96...Nxc6. Whether or not this is 100% reliable (due to transpositions, nullmove, and whatnot) is another issue. [With 96...Kf7, the scores hovered in the +2 range, though many of these were from RBP vs RN, which might well be drawn -- if I followed lines were pawns were not exchanged, it was still unclear, and I lost interest after knowing the results from the other two moves]. From the TCEC data, Rybka was playing at about 5 seconds per move from moves 96-100 (after using 46s at move 95 -- both had 11m left until Shredder used 8 minutes on 101. g5), and then suddenly took a 13-second think at move 102 and realised White was +3.

It really is amazing to me how many of these get decided in the later stages, though I think some of the Freestyle guys had made similar comments (that an error in the middlegame might change the score by -0.25 or -0.5, but in the endgame would simply lose).
It actually looks like Rybka's downfall began the move before. The expected move was ...a2, Rybka played ...Rb8. Houdini evaluates the position nearly a half-pawn in Shredder's favor at that point already if 96. f4. Critter is even more optimistic, giving Shredder about a half-pawn before ...Rb8 was played, and 1.3+ and rising afterward). DS12 (Mac) considers itself already a pawn ahead, regardless of what Black plays. Rybka's move simply makes matters worse.

Rybka had time, so I assume it just missed the point.

Martin, where does the evaluation displayed on the site come from? White? Or is there a 3rd engine providing evaluation commentary?

Jeremy

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Re: TCEC LIVE - Division I, Season 1 - All the top engines!

Post by BB+ » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:49 pm

Martin, where does the evaluation displayed on the site come from? White? Or is there a 3rd engine providing evaluation commentary?
My understanding is that the TCEC site evals are from the engines themselves, while ChessBomb uses Stockfish. For instance, the TCEC data-dump from ChessGUI looks like:
90.Rxg5 { ev=0.10, d=23, pd=Rxf3, mt=00:00:19, tl=00:12:35, s=6919 kN/s, tb=0,  }
Nf4+ { ev=0.00, d=21, pd=Kxh4, mt=00:00:15, tl=00:11:07, s=817 kN/s, tb=321,  }
91.Kxh4 { ev=0.70, d=22, pd=Ne6, mt=00:00:34, tl=00:12:12, s=6968 kN/s, tb=0,  }
Ne6 { ev=0.00, d=21, pd=Rh5, mt=00:00:04, tl=00:11:14, s=765 kN/s, tb=0,  }
92.Rh5+ { ev=0.54, d=21, pd=Kg6, mt=00:00:18, tl=00:12:05, s=7237 kN/s, tb=0,  }
Kg6 { ev=0.00, d=22, pd=Be3, mt=00:00:03, tl=00:11:21, s=927 kN/s, tb=54,  }
93.Be3 { ev=0.41, d=21, pd=Rh8, mt=00:00:19, tl=00:11:58, s=7210 kN/s, tb=0,  }
Rfd8 { ev=0.00, d=22, pd=f4, mt=00:00:12, tl=00:11:20, s=777 kN/s, tb=29,  }
94.Rxd8 { ev=0.94, d=21, pd=Nxd8, mt=00:00:18, tl=00:11:50, s=7389 kN/s, tb=0,  }
Nxd8 { ev=0.00, d=20, pd=f4, mt=00:00:05, tl=00:11:27, s=693 kN/s, tb=186,  }
95.Rh8 { ev=0.87, d=24, pd=a2, mt=00:00:20, tl=00:11:41, s=7722 kN/s, tb=0,  }
Rb8 { ev=0.00, d=24, pd=f4, mt=00:00:46, tl=00:10:52, s=757 kN/s, tb=45027,  }
96.f4 { ev=1.49, d=23, pd=Nxc6, mt=00:00:19, tl=00:11:33, s=8100 kN/s, tb=0,  }
Nxc6 { ev=0.00, d=23, pd=f5, mt=00:00:06, tl=00:10:57, s=832 kN/s, tb=3,  }
97.f5+ { ev=1.93, d=26, pd=Kf7, mt=00:00:17, tl=00:11:28, s=8021 kN/s, tb=0,  }
Kf7 { ev=0.00, d=23, pd=Rxb8, mt=00:00:04, tl=00:11:03, s=836 kN/s, tb=22,  }
98.Rxb8 { ev=1.93, d=28, pd=Nxb8, mt=00:00:17, tl=00:11:22, s=7805 kN/s, tb=0,  }
Nxb8 { ev=0.00, d=23, pd=g5, mt=00:00:02, tl=00:11:13, s=833 kN/s, tb=0,  }
99.Bc1 { ev=2.47, d=28, pd=a2, mt=00:00:20, tl=00:11:13, s=9485 kN/s, tb=0,  }
a2 { ev=0.00, d=26, pd=Bb2, mt=00:00:02, tl=00:11:21, s=501 kN/s, tb=1320,  }

Jeremy Bernstein
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Re: TCEC LIVE - Division I, Season 1 - All the top engines!

Post by Jeremy Bernstein » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:52 pm

BB+ wrote:
Martin, where does the evaluation displayed on the site come from? White? Or is there a 3rd engine providing evaluation commentary?
My understanding is that the TCEC site evals are from the engines themselves, while ChessBomb uses Stockfish. For instance, the TCEC data-dump from ChessGUI looks like:
90.Rxg5 { ev=0.10, d=23, pd=Rxf3, mt=00:00:19, tl=00:12:35, s=6919 kN/s, tb=0,  }
Nf4+ { ev=0.00, d=21, pd=Kxh4, mt=00:00:15, tl=00:11:07, s=817 kN/s, tb=321,  }
91.Kxh4 { ev=0.70, d=22, pd=Ne6, mt=00:00:34, tl=00:12:12, s=6968 kN/s, tb=0,  }
Ne6 { ev=0.00, d=21, pd=Rh5, mt=00:00:04, tl=00:11:14, s=765 kN/s, tb=0,  }
92.Rh5+ { ev=0.54, d=21, pd=Kg6, mt=00:00:18, tl=00:12:05, s=7237 kN/s, tb=0,  }
Kg6 { ev=0.00, d=22, pd=Be3, mt=00:00:03, tl=00:11:21, s=927 kN/s, tb=54,  }
93.Be3 { ev=0.41, d=21, pd=Rh8, mt=00:00:19, tl=00:11:58, s=7210 kN/s, tb=0,  }
Rfd8 { ev=0.00, d=22, pd=f4, mt=00:00:12, tl=00:11:20, s=777 kN/s, tb=29,  }
94.Rxd8 { ev=0.94, d=21, pd=Nxd8, mt=00:00:18, tl=00:11:50, s=7389 kN/s, tb=0,  }
Nxd8 { ev=0.00, d=20, pd=f4, mt=00:00:05, tl=00:11:27, s=693 kN/s, tb=186,  }
95.Rh8 { ev=0.87, d=24, pd=a2, mt=00:00:20, tl=00:11:41, s=7722 kN/s, tb=0,  }
Rb8 { ev=0.00, d=24, pd=f4, mt=00:00:46, tl=00:10:52, s=757 kN/s, tb=45027,  }
96.f4 { ev=1.49, d=23, pd=Nxc6, mt=00:00:19, tl=00:11:33, s=8100 kN/s, tb=0,  }
Nxc6 { ev=0.00, d=23, pd=f5, mt=00:00:06, tl=00:10:57, s=832 kN/s, tb=3,  }
97.f5+ { ev=1.93, d=26, pd=Kf7, mt=00:00:17, tl=00:11:28, s=8021 kN/s, tb=0,  }
Kf7 { ev=0.00, d=23, pd=Rxb8, mt=00:00:04, tl=00:11:03, s=836 kN/s, tb=22,  }
98.Rxb8 { ev=1.93, d=28, pd=Nxb8, mt=00:00:17, tl=00:11:22, s=7805 kN/s, tb=0,  }
Nxb8 { ev=0.00, d=23, pd=g5, mt=00:00:02, tl=00:11:13, s=833 kN/s, tb=0,  }
99.Bc1 { ev=2.47, d=28, pd=a2, mt=00:00:20, tl=00:11:13, s=9485 kN/s, tb=0,  }
a2 { ev=0.00, d=26, pd=Bb2, mt=00:00:02, tl=00:11:21, s=501 kN/s, tb=1320,  }
Sorry, I'm left-handed and apparently blind. I saw the eval on the left-hand side and missed it on the right. Now everything makes sense. Sorry for the noise.

BB+
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Re: TCEC LIVE - Division I, Season 1 - All the top engines!

Post by BB+ » Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:55 pm

Another late-game surprise in Stockfish-Naum. After an inordinate amount of shuffling with 0.00 scores from White (but Naum desiring more), the prying open of the position gives White an advantage due to a passed e-pawn and the weak Black pawns (and the light-squared Bishop is finally not so hobbled). Again I'm not so sure whether "increment" chess really played a part here, but the moves are coming much faster around move 100 than previously.

Martin Thoresen
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Re: TCEC LIVE - Division I, Season 1 - All the top engines!

Post by Martin Thoresen » Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:19 pm

Jeremy,

Yes BB+ is correct, the eval is from the playing engines themselves.

Best,
Martin
TCEC - Thoresen Chess Engines Competition
http://tcec.chessdom.com

BB+
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Re: TCEC LIVE - Division I, Season 1 - All the top engines!

Post by BB+ » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:05 pm

So close to termination... on the last possible move (10th ply) of a 0.00 sequence that would end Division I, HIARCS jumps to 0.52. :o This is also a fight for survival, as HIARCS needs to win to avoid relegation. [It seems the position is dead-drawn though White is up 2 pawns, and even w/o TripleBases I do not think IvanHoe would lose this -- unless some mis-guided attempt at a perpetual (all draws are alike, right?) pushes the value of a passed pawn past the horizon -- and now it's increment chess to boot, so everything is possble perhaps]. EDIT: Egad, it's the Rook and a+c pawns ending again in some lines! But I don't think IvanHoe has the requisite 6-piece TB knowledge...

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Re: TCEC LIVE - Division I, Season 1 - All the top engines!

Post by BB+ » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:31 pm

HIARCS is giving +1.35 in a 5-piece TB draw. Maybe it's in "swindle" mode... [Given all the other rules about draws/resignation, I'm surprised there isn't simply GUI adjudication, at least for 5 piece].

Final standings appear to be:
Houdini   +5 -0 =9  24
Rybka     +6 -3 =5  23
Stockfish +4 -2 =8  20
Critter   +3 -3 =8  17
IvanHoe   +3 -3 =8  17
Shredder  +1 -4 =9  12
Naum      +2 -6 =6  12
HIARCS    +0 -3 =11 11
I might point out that HIARCS had by far the least volatile openings (absolute value of ~0.11 only, with the mean about twice that).

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Re: TCEC LIVE - Division I, Season 1 - All the top engines!

Post by BB+ » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:42 pm

Oh great... A perfect ending... with a Bishop underpromotion!! :!:

And it even shows forth a bug in the system (probably with ChessGUI and the 50-move rule?):