POLL: What is more important?

[Marek]

The neccesity to force a draw is relevent when both engines are playing perfect, under the premise that the "consensus" is right about chess being drawn under perfect play.

If the engines are programmed not to make mistakes, they probably won't.

It is only correct for a perfect engine to force a draw (in a drawn position) if it knows its opponent is perfect too. But how can it know that?

The best engines aren't supposed to make mistakes, but still do. A perfect engine will follow 32TBs, but could still make a mistake by forcing a draw against an engine without them.

[xshat]

The neccesity to force a draw is relevent when both engines are playing perfect, under the premise that the "consensus" is right about chess being drawn under perfect play.

If the engines are programmed not to make mistakes, they probably won't.

It is only correct for a perfect engine to force a draw (in a drawn position) if it knows its opponent is perfect too. But how can it know that?

The best engines aren't supposed to make mistakes, but still do. A perfect engine will follow 32TBs, but could still make a mistake by forcing a draw against an engine without them.

I'm saying that when chess is solved the best engines will obviously know their opponents are perfect because they are all programmed to make perfect moves.

As of now, it is different. Currently the best engines make mistakes, but when chess is sovled they won't.

[Marek]

I'm saying that when chess is solved the best engines will obviously know their opponents are perfect because they are all programmed to make perfect moves.

As of now, it is different. Currently the best engines make mistakes, but when chess is sovled they won't.

Even the best engines won't know anything about their opponents - they are not psychic.

Perfect Fire may be better than Perfect Fritz because the latter will have more draws against imperfect opposition.

The question remains - and it's why 32TBs won't solve chess - what is the most effective move in a drawn position?

[64x]

When chess is solved, you won't need engines, just tablebase readers.

[xshat]

I'm saying that when chess is solved the best engines will obviously know their opponents are perfect because they are all programmed to make perfect moves.

As of now, it is different. Currently the best engines make mistakes, but when chess is sovled they won't.

Even the best engines won't know anything about their opponents - they are not psychic.

Perfect Fire may be better than Perfect Fritz because the latter will have more draws against imperfect opposition.

The question remains - and it's why 32TBs won't solve chess - what is the most effective move in a drawn position?

They will be the same as their opponents if they have both solved chess.

[Marek]

I'm saying that when chess is solved the best engines will obviously know their opponents are perfect because they are all programmed to make perfect moves.

As of now, it is different. Currently the best engines make mistakes, but when chess is sovled they won't.

Even the best engines won't know anything about their opponents - they are not psychic.

Perfect Fire may be better than Perfect Fritz because the latter will have more draws against imperfect opposition.

The question remains - and it's why 32TBs won't solve chess - what is the most effective move in a drawn position?

They will be the same as their opponents if they have both solved chess.

And if they haven't?

[Marek]

When chess is solved, you won't need engines, just tablebase readers.

No. I've explained this before. In brief... Your tablebase reader won't discriminate between the Slav Exchange and the King's Gambit. Both are probably drawn. Yet the King's Gambit will score better in practice against an unknown opponent, which might be an engine without 32TBs. As far as your reader is concerned, both will end in draws with perfect play, but it doesn't know that its opponent will play perfectly.

[Marek]

I'm saying that when chess is solved the best engines will obviously know their opponents are perfect because they are all programmed to make perfect moves.

As of now, it is different. Currently the best engines make mistakes, but when chess is sovled they won't.

Even the best engines won't know anything about their opponents - they are not psychic.

Perfect Fire may be better than Perfect Fritz because the latter will have more draws against imperfect opposition.

The question remains - and it's why 32TBs won't solve chess - what is the most effective move in a drawn position?

They will be the same as their opponents if they have both solved chess.

And if they haven't?

In any case, as I have already said, one engine with 32TBs could score better against imperfect opposition (i.e. allow fewer draws) than another engine with 32TBs playing against imperfect opposition.

[xshat]

Engines with perfect play will always play perfect no matter what gambit or move it is because perfect engines will have solved chess.

[Dr. Ivannik]

Gentlemen

Programmers will always allow for personalities and handicap levels so a mere human can enjoy a game. Tablebases like the engines are analysis tools and the prospect of chess being solved never worries me as a player because humans can't memorize all that info. Also nobody will be around to see it as it will be hundreds of years before computers solve chess, their not even close just to let ya know. Is it just me or does this forum remind anyone else of "who's on first".

Thank you

Dr. Ivannik