SedatChess

[Sedat Canbaz]

Breaking News (11.09.2024):
1st of all and as I stated earlier: this is not a CS...just organized to check
NON-NN influences, because this time Stockfish 5 is used for all players..
For example, the previous tour played via Raubfish NN..now as NON-NN
And the present tour is adapted more close conditions as played in past!
Moreover, my target is not to prove that I may create not so weak books)
Many of you know Me over long past years plus nowadays we have great
Talents, who create superior powerful books too...Note also that I did not
Touch/tune (by hand) any of original drawn+won openings they are left as
They have to be..but till 2009, I was quite active over newer/stronger move
Ideas that never played before..actually as reference, you can check also
All individual stats etc, where you'll notice also that P16 lost to some strong
Champs..but in past, I'd not allow (before final release) to public ones to win)
At least to available opening lines)
But anyhow, I'm satisfied..if not, I have to be ungrateful.. because in almost
All tours (sure in my tour categories) as usual my work is not so bad, right?
Btw, for comparing (NN vs NON-NN).. here are the recent NN tour: Results
So now we've more data about NN influences, for some better / worse etc.
But this is also true, current standings are more close to the results of past..
Ok dear chess friends that's all for now...and many thanks for your interest )

The Leader (2006-2010) Perfect 16 - Exc. Me) Congrats to all Authors too!

FOR FINAL STANDINGS:
https://sites.google.com/site/computers ... -2006-2010

GAMES:
https://mega.nz/file/v1IHUCKL#s0l2Byf-O ... VOhb-wJX_E

Best,
Sedat

[Sedat Canbaz]

UPDATE

1st of all, today let Me start please, with this new question:
Why almost all Top NN 3700+ programmers are unsuccessful,
Fail to improve their engines with strong short openings?
Let's say Balsa v500 (up to 5 moves), do you believe that
Balsa is dead, it's too drawish opening suite etc. ? If so..
I hardly doubt..but just in case..you are a pawn that
You do not know that it's a piece of chess game!

Frankly I see this situation as 'Comedy of Errors' / 'Sour Grapes'!!
Yes..some guys, who are not capable how to improve theirs eng
Strength etc. unfortunately they prefer to say for our strong short
Openings such as dead, drawish etc. hehe)..anything more else ?)
Perhaps the 'golden' key in the hand of AlphaZero team..ask them..
Who knows? they introduced the 1st NN.. to our chess community..
Via beating SF8 with clear margin..Btw, sure this is other question,
But their organized match was unfair such as duel: NON-NN vs NN

Continuing ...

Again who knows? maybe AlphaZero may help here how to improve?
Because since a long time, 3700+ Elo improvement is almost dead..
Sure here again I refer mainly for short (not deep) strong openings!
Btw, just a test via deep strong openings: situation is more critical,
Much less Elo improvements are expecting for sure...!

What I can say more,
Be sure..the strong opening theory is not dead at all or not so drawish..
At least under SCCT.. e.g I run many tours to determine which are best,
Strongest books as well and not since yesterday...since many years!

In other words, I can summarize also all over these issues such as,
It is time for a new revolution..to learn, to originate better ideas!
But just do not blame the strong opening lines.. and hope helps!

Have a nice day )
Sedat

[Sedat Canbaz]

UPDATE 2

Well, I just realized to test latest Stockfish 17,
Which is super strong close to 3800+ plus free !
That means a lot really...thanks a lot to SF team!

And here are latest new results, enjoy

Bullet (30s+0.6s): + 6 Elo diff. (in favor for SF17)

Code: Select all

1   Stockfish 17    +28/-12/=960 50.80%  508.0/1000
2   Stockfish 16.1  +12/-28/=960 49.20%  492.0/1000

Note: 64 MB Hash is used for Bullet / DrawRatio: 96%

-----------------------------------------------------

Blitz (2m+1s): + 1 Elo diff. (in favor for SF17)

Code: Select all

1   Stockfish 17    +4/-2/=494 50.20%  251.0/500
2   Stockfish 16.1  +2/-4/=494 49.80%  249.0/500

Note: 128 MB Hash is used for Blitz  / DrawRatio: 99%

GAMES:
https://mega.nz/file/3hhmmBiS#YpCICwKMH ... WAz8k1gzNg

Conditions / Some Notes:
2x Epyc 7B12, CuteChess 1.3.1, Ponder OFF, 1 Core, 4-MEN, Balsa v500,
Note (for fair cond.): all openings are repeated with switched colors..
Note also that both Top SF engines are played via move overhead: 400

But anyhow, I have bad news too, reality is reality..
E.g latest Stockfish 17 is not so stable...sad indeed..
E.g SF17 is lost 1 (one) game on time (via Bullet)

On other hand, we are in 2024..but still we see
Instability, bad issues...moreover, SF team is based
On army of Top authors...but unfortunately non of them
Can improve SF17 in better way, sure I'm not referring
About its strength..I mean simply about eng stability!
This is a very important part.. at least for my side!!

By the way,
Soon as possible, I hope to share other new NON-NN tests...
Duel match: Stockfish 10 vs Stockfish 11.. we will see
What is Elo improvements and we will see their stability too..
And the test is exactly under same Bullet cond. via Balsa v500 too!
And let's see NON-NN Top engines will be too drawish or not ?!
Because in case of 3800 Elo vs 3800 Elo is just waste of time..
E.g as we see, no much Elo improvement..in more than 6 months..
Maybe SF team Is too busy with handicapped (weak) opening lines?
BTW, just don't say/suggest to use these how do they say 'unbalanced'
Lines.. because just in case...if my car has 'unbalanced'
Vehicle problems...my 1st job to be in car repair service !)
Sorry here...and it seems, via NN 3800+ harder to add NN Elo points...
Ok.. I already forgot SF Elo improvements...and let's hope also next
Stockfish 18 to be stable as before (like in the past) !!

In other words,
I hope all SF Authors will pay more attention about Eng stability...
Sure I refer here before final official releases... thanks in advance

And please stay tuned... very soon SF10 vs SF11 is coming!

Greetings )

[Sedat Canbaz]

UPDATE 3

Bullet NON-NN: + 54 Elo diff. (in favor for SF11)

And via NON-NN: no any game is recorded to be lost on time !!
In other words, it seems all very stable... great news for sure !

Code: Select all

1   Stockfish 11  +230/-75/=695 57.75%  577.5/1000
2   Stockfish 10  +75/-230/=695 42.25%  422.5/1000

Note: 64 MB Hash is used for Bullet / DrawRatio: 69%

Conditions / Some Notes:
2x Epyc 7B12, CuteChess 1.3.1, Ponder OFF, 1 Core, 4-MEN, Balsa v500,
Note (for fair cond.): all openings are repeated with switched colors
Both SF engines are played with Move overhead: 200

As FINAL Conclusion,
Classic is Classic...it is better, more fun and very stable!
Sure NON-NN is weaker...but stability is more important!
If nothing else, if comparing the latest SF17 release....

Meanwhile, this is nothing new.. e.g with my older hardware,
During the famous Duel Match: Book Vs NNUE III:
https://sites.google.com/site/computers ... ks-vs-nnue
Again and again the older SF NN (including SugaR) are lost on time too!
What is changed ? not so much...same story as in past..sad, but true!

Btw, what does it mean 'Classic' word: 'High quality'
At least under these played conditions, it seems to be so!
As we see..there are better stable games plus the matches are
Played via strong opening lines... besides, both SF vers produced:
69% draws !! you know.. not so high numbers, right?
Because the present latest test was with Top engines 3500 -3600 Elo points...
Plus, under these cond. more than 50+Elo improvement (between both vers.)
And frankly.. as a TD / Tester: I hope and I love to see similar good news...
Otherwise, just in case newer releases...sure with time forfeits etc. then
I feel like there is something wrong with my hardware/tournament setup !)

And I hope also that,
All my produced data to be useful for programmers ...if not..will be sad..
But I can live with that.. !)

Ok dear friends...thanks for reading, interest..see you later )

Best,
Sedat

[Sedat Canbaz]

EDIT:

Meanwhile, this is nothing new.. e.g with my older hardware,
During the famous Duel Match: Book Vs NNUE III:
https://sites.google.com/site/computers ... nn-vs-book
Again and again the older SF NN (including SugaR) are lost on time too!
What is changed ? not so much...same story as in past..sad, but true!

[Sedat Canbaz]

By the way,,
All (1000) games are uploaded of latest Bullet (30s+0.6s) SF11 vs SF10 NON-NN:
https://mega.nz/file/bsgWWT7Y#wzcS2yZym ... NruoukA0QU

Greetings

[Homayoun]

Many thanks and bravo, Sedat.

[Sedat Canbaz]

Many thanks and bravo, Sedat.

You are welcome and thanks dear Homayoun )

[Ding-Bat]

Thanks Buddy any chance to test the metal of book makers and run a tour on say books under 3MB

[Sedat Canbaz]

Thanks Buddy any chance to test the metal of book makers and run a tour on say books under 3MB

Not at all dear chess friend )

A good idea...

Actually not sure exactly what will be the book size rules..
Yes...as you said, up to 3 MB or up to 5 MB sounds not so bad...
On other hand,
Today especially I am too busy...but in the next days,
I hope to start new book tours with size categories..

Greetings )