SedatChess

[IbaiBuR]

However and once more to be more clear,
Some days ago.. you commented something like that
SCCT is not 'valid' because I run Concurrent matches

Now even after both testings, that means 700 games
Do you STILL believe that Learning engines are NOT
Capable to gain, learn (under Concurrent) etc. ?

About your friendly suggestion..
Thank you, but I already stated that
I plan to test new Eman exp entries via Raptora 2.2
If you missed,
Not so good idea if I will run via Concurrent games: 32
Because my tournament machine is 2x EPYC 7B12, which
Offers us: 256 Threads / 128 Cores

On other hand,
I respect you as good programmer, but as a tester
I have different view than you... SORRY...
And once more...and as I mentioned before,
I relay on testings, than comments...!

Continuing...

Sure, for a better conclusion, we need more games..
Regarding the real Elo differences...but anyhow
After checking the latest results, it's already clear that,
RapTora gains/learn much..even via Concurrent matches!
Actually this is already proved in many SCCT tours!
So talking more over these issues will be meaningless!
I just wanted to ask your opinion.. ) but it seems hard
To believe...but no BIG problem...I've done my best!)
Even on my Holiday days.. )

Greetings

It is sad that you are going to test Eman experience files with RapTora, it doesnt make much sense but if you want to, it is your choice basically...

RapTora may be able to learn "something" via concurrent matches, but, as I told you before, probably a lot of experience data is lost sadly because there are too much concurrent reads / updates in a single experience file...

Since you are right that it is better to rely on comments than on testings, when I have some free time I will try to support what I say with tests too...

I also wonder, why dont you rely on my settings / advices? Because when bookmakers give you settings for their books you dont ignore them? I am trying my best also to give you best settings possible...

Regards,

Ibai

[Sedat Canbaz]

Since you are right that it is better to relay on comments than on testings,

What a pity that
The confusions (between each other) are continuing...

If not so clear,
Really ? are you sure ? I said just opposite..and not once...
Many many times... if still not CLEAR:

I prefer to relay on TESTINGS (than comments)

And I wished to see your replay something like that:
SCCT is valid or NOT valid...

I mean in very simple: YES or NO ??))

Ok.. that all )

Best,
Sedat

[IbaiBuR]

Sorry I wrote the opposite of what I wanted to say lol, since testings are the real proof of comments, I will make some tests when I have some free time to validate what I say.

For me it is not valid sorry, I already gave the reasons why...

Can you also answer my question? Why dont you rely and use the settings engine trainers advise and give with the aim of helping but you follow the settings book authors give you for example? Do you have any problem with engine trainers or something?

I ask you this because I am trying my best to give you settings, recommedations, etc... but you ignore them sadly

Hope helps and thanks in advance,

Ibai

[Sedat Canbaz]

Sorry I wrote the opposite of what I wanted to say lol

Ahh.. ))) anyhow no problem

Meanwhile,
Here is my friendly advice to you:, plus to other testers who still..:
I suggest you to use and test the engines via Concurrent matches!!
In this way, definitely you will save much CPU time... plus in this way,
You will reduce your Electricity bills as well..

For further information, don't hesitate to ask..ready to help...

And after all, it is all up to you...

Sure, if you are not interested..then
Simply ignore my current posting..

Greetings

[IbaiBuR]

Ahh.. ))) anyhow no problem

Meanwhile,
Here is my friendly advice to you:, plus to other testers who still..:
I suggest you to use and test the engines via Concurrent matches!!
In this way, definitely you will save much CPU time... plus in this way,
You will reduce your Electricity bills as well..

For further information, don't hesitate to ask..ready to help...

Sure after all,
It is all up to you...

Sure, if you are not interested...then
Simply ignore my current posting..

Greetings

When I test engines with learning feature such as Eman I dont run concurrent matches because of the reasons I already exposed...

For other kind of tests for sure I use concurrency... It helps the test to end faster and you save a huge amount of time...

I dont pay for the electricy mainly because I run all of my testings / computer-chess activities in Virtual Machines that my university provides to me...

Thanks for the recommendation tho, everything is too expensive nowadays

Can you also answer the question in my previous post as I already answered yours?

Regards,

Ibai

[Sedat Canbaz]

Sorry I wrote the opposite of what I wanted to say lol, since testings are the real proof of comments, I will make some tests when I have some free time to validate what I say.

For me it is not valid sorry, I already gave the reasons why...

Can you also answer my question? Why dont you rely and use the settings engine trainers advise and give with the aim of helping but you follow the settings book authors give you for example? Do you have any problem with engine trainers or something?

I ask you this because I am trying my best to give you settings, recommedations, etc... but you ignore them sadly

Hope helps and thanks in advance,

Ibai

Sad...but no BIG problem that SCCT is not 'valid' for your side
And frankly no way to satisfy all..plus I have no such target..!)

But however,
It seems that you have serious problem to read, check etc..
If not so clear...you proved several times.. right ??))
Just do not say, when, where.. because I have no more
Free time over such useless issues...

By the way,
I suggest you also that to re-read, re-check my latest organized
Useful testings...next time read more careful please..hope helps..

Meanwhile, what about you ?
Can you run a serious 'valid' rating, with many games (per player)
And just in case, next time please include at least 30-40 players
Yes..you love to criticize...but after checking your test with SCCT
Really the differences is so so BIG...!!!

Regarding about your rest comments,
As I stated before, I prefer mainly stable chess engines!
Eman is not a good choice if Gauntlet --- Concurrent: 64
Training mode ? what ? I am already on Holiday mode ))

That's all...

Best,
Sedat

[IbaiBuR]

Sorry I wrote the opposite of what I wanted to say lol, since testings are the real proof of comments, I will make some tests when I have some free time to validate what I say.

For me it is not valid sorry, I already gave the reasons why...

Can you also answer my question? Why dont you rely and use the settings engine trainers advise and give with the aim of helping but you follow the settings book authors give you for example? Do you have any problem with engine trainers or something?

I ask you this because I am trying my best to give you settings, recommedations, etc... but you ignore them sadly

Hope helps and thanks in advance,

Ibai

Sad...but no BIG problem that SCCT is not 'valid' for your side
And frankly no way to satisfy all..plus I have no such target..!)

But however,
It seems that you have serious problem to read, check etc..
If not so clear...you proved several times.. right ??))
Just do not say, when, where.. because I have no more
Free time over such useless issues...

Meanwhile, what about you ?
Can you run a serious 'valid' rating, with many games (per player)
And just in case, next time please include at least 30-40 players
Yes..you love to criticize...but after checking your test with SCCT
Really the differences is so so BIG...!!!

Regarding about your rest comments,
As I stated before, I prefer mainly stable chess engines!
Eman is not a good choice if Gauntlet --- Concurrent: 64
Training mode ? what ? I am already on Holiday mode ))

That's all...

Best,
Sedat

Yeah so now you return to hostile attitude, dont understand why

Where do I have a problem to read? What do you mean? I dont understand what you are saying!

Yes, I will run a valid, serious test, but you will probably say its trash because you dont like my chess activities and you seem to not like what I say, even if I am trying to help, give my opinion...

I did not make any test, dont know what you are referring to, what I linked from my blog is not a TEST ok??? I explain the way I train the engines, how they learn, etc... But it is not a test, please read the full blog post and be informed before saying things like that. I repeat anyways, IT IS NOT A TEST!

When engines such as Eman use their default settings it can be called "training mode" because they sometimes try different / unusual moves and dont follow their experience data. One option to fix this is to use the Experience Book option Eman has to force the engine to play directly from the experience data for example.

I am in holiday mode too! But I didnt ask you that, you still have not answered my question, why do you ignore all the settings and advices we give you?

If it is because you need tests to believe people (only engine trainers, because you apply the settings book authors give you without asking them for tests), dont worry, I will make some tests when I have some time (I am in holiday mode too hehe) and I will try to validate and support all of what I say, and, if after that you still not believe me its fine, I will not be angry like you, dont worry

Btw, you say: many players-> your test is with 2 players xD

Anyways, we both should stop taking this kind of things too seriously, because I think that computer-chess is mainly to have fun!

[Sedat Canbaz]

No...no...you return to your hostile attitude..really!

Something like SCCT is not 'valid' LOL..

On other hand,
I ran very useful testings, sure we need more of them, but
It seems..you are missing as usual...not only latest tests..
If you say only two players etc. then go and check please:
https://sites.google.com/site/computerschess/ratings

Regarding where you have problems to read etc.
Well, how did you forget already ?
Some minutes ago you said, I relay on comments .. LOL...

Actually I can understand, if past some years..please..!
Just a few hints more..exception on this thread...plus
You may start to remember, e.g if go to re-read again:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3648&start=60

Ok friend,
It was a nice discussion with you..but I think that
It is already enough...sure you can try to give more lessons..
But before, you have to prove...but without comments ok?
At least I have a lot of prove data.. what about you ?
For this, before coming to criticizing Me..
I suggest you to come with real facts

Till to this date Bye Bye...
Sure later I may check.. and be sure I will congratulate you!
Be before... as I said before, prove with facts than comments!

Greetings

[IbaiBuR]

No...no...you return to your hostile attitude..really!

Something like SCCT is not 'valid' LOL..

On other hand,
I ran very useful testings, sure we need more of them, but
It seems..you are missing as usual...not only latest tests..
If you say only two players etc. then go and check please:
https://sites.google.com/site/computerschess/ratings

Regarding where you have problems to read etc.
Well, how did you forget already ?
Some minutes ago you said, I relay on comments .. LOL...

Actually I can understand, if past some years..please..!
Just a few hints more..exception on this thread...plus
You may start to remember, e.g if go to re-read again:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3648&start=60

Ok friend,
It was a nice discussion with you..but I think that
It is already enough...sure you can try to give more lessons..
But before, you have to prove...but without comments ok?
At least I have a lot of prove data.. what about you ?
For this, before coming to criticizing Me..
I suggest you to come with real facts

Till to this date Bye Bye...
Sure later I may check.. and be sure I will congratulate you!
Be before... as I said before, prove with facts than comments!

You asked me: "¿Do you consider it valid?" and I just gave my opinion, thats all! If you are going to react like this please dont ping me or ask me anymore because we ended this discussion some days ago in a friendly way and you are ruining it all because I gave my humble opinion and it seems it harmed you!

Is that hostile? Giving my opinion? It makes you angry that I said it is not valid?

Again, I am not trying to give lessons to anyone, I am trying to help you and others. You dont see this or what?! Just because you tested engines and books for 20+ years everyone has to agree with you on everything, assume what you say and follow you?! Just because of that I cant comment on your testings?!

I have data from engine training, not from tests, because I am not a tester I have not been doing tests for 20+ years. I am 19 years old and I am also studying I dont have as much free time as you seem to have for computer-chess but I still make a lot of efforts for engine-training and I will surely make tests about this dont worry.

Also, I said: Sorry I wrote the opposite of what I wanted to say lol, since testings are the real proof of comments, I will make some tests when I have some free time to validate what I say. to correct what I said before but I will do it again since you dont even read my posts and have a very big comprehension problem!

So dont say: "You forgot you said you rely on comments". I did not intend to say that I prefer to rely on comments but the opposite, I intended to say that real tests is what proofs things lol, I am human and I have errors like everyone!

If you are going to react like this dont quote me anymore and thats all! If you are harmed by a single opinion from a 19 years old student you have a very big and serious problem!

It seems you need validation from others because if not you wouldnt have quoted and asked me!

Unless you say anything harmful, not true or similiar about me, I wont interact with you anymore! I will leave you in peace and I hope you too, because this is really tiring and I dont want to participate in discussions with you anymore, it is like talking to a wall sometimes!

I added you to my foe list so I wont even see your posts. Have fun with your 100 game tests with concurrency and small / merged / bad trained experience files with poor settings! I really really hope you and your followers enjoy them, they are great tests indeed!

[Sedat Canbaz]

One thing more,

In my opinion:
In latest days, I run various useful testings,
Regarding mainly Concurrent influences!

In same time,
My target was to see EXP's power as well!!
Sure to see Eman exp via Raptora 2.2 too...

And I do not believe that
All these new results are ...Due to ERROR-margin!

Yes...I did not start these kind of testings since yesterday!
I test chess engines 25 years! I think that a very long period!
Sure I do not claim that my testings are 100% correct!
But I have some data, which seems to be not so bad...

Continuing...

What we noticed also (via latest 700 games) ?
The Learning engines are capable to
Learn properly (even during Parallel matches)!

Btw, If someone/s have problems to read..
Simply this is not my problem...

Meanwhile, for anyone missed:
Exception about other my organized tours..
Recently I ran new 7 (seven) various testings,
And what kind of proof do we need more?
I think that the current new picture is very clear!

If the picture is still not so clear...
I am tournament manager of SCCT...
That means, I have some experience of my hardware, right ?
Or maybe there something wrong with my 2x EPYC ?
Anyhow, at least I can confirm that Eman is crashing...
Sure I mean in case of Gauntlet mode, Concurrent: 64

In other words, about Eman is buggy or not...
Do I need to publish screenshots...to prove?
Just do not say 'YES' because in a second,
CuteChess GUI terminates...and this is not as
Hardware problem issue...because all other
Tested Engines play flawlessly...even via 64

Ok.. that's all
It is time for Holidays )

Gretings