Bob asks: Then why don't YOU come up with a rule 2?

[hyatt]

I think that is a silly question. Suppose he went by the bank to deposit a personal check while at the event? Is THAT not allowed? Can't meet family or friends for dinner? Can't visit a local "thing to see"? You guys will do ANYTHING possible to cast aspersions on David, or anyone else you don't agree with on this topic.

Personally I have never had a job I thought claimed me for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Would not have such a job.

[Chris Whittington]

I think that is a silly question. Suppose he went by the bank to deposit a personal check while at the event? Is THAT not allowed? Can't meet family or friends for dinner? Can't visit a local "thing to see"? You guys will do ANYTHING possible to cast aspersions on David, or anyone else you don't agree with on this topic.

Personally I have never had a job I thought claimed me for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Would not have such a job.

Dis you read Mark Watkins link concerning Levy?

look, this takes us to the Nintendo-Loop affair. let's hypothesise a scenario ... Nintendo want a chess program, they do a google search and find a link to icga. they send an email to the president.

I would argue, at this point, sonce igca is supposed to be a programmers organization, set up by programmers (as you are so fond of telling us) that the president lets it be known that Nintendo seeks a program, and suggests interested programmers contact them.

Or, does president, or representative, select a program, make a deal with Nintendo, and rake off a fee?

We don't know what happened in case Loop. Were icga registered commercial programmers advised?

[hyatt]

I think that is a silly question. Suppose he went by the bank to deposit a personal check while at the event? Is THAT not allowed? Can't meet family or friends for dinner? Can't visit a local "thing to see"? You guys will do ANYTHING possible to cast aspersions on David, or anyone else you don't agree with on this topic.

Personally I have never had a job I thought claimed me for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Would not have such a job.

Dis you read Mark Watkins link concerning Levy?

look, this takes us to the Nintendo-Loop affair. let's hypothesise a scenario ... Nintendo want a chess program, they do a google search and find a link to icga. they send an email to the president.

I would argue, at this point, sonce igca is supposed to be a programmers organization, set up by programmers (as you are so fond of telling us) that the president lets it be known that Nintendo seeks a program, and suggests interested programmers contact them.

Or, does president, or representative, select a program, make a deal with Nintendo, and rake off a fee?

We don't know what happened in case Loop. Were icga registered commercial programmers advised?

No idea what happened, so I am not interested, since speculation leads nowhere. If you are talking about the MSO stuff by Levy, I glanced at it but it was old news several years ago. Not sure what it has to do with anything _here_. Since I am not a "commercial programmer" I have no idea if they were contacted or not, and don't care. It would be reasonable if they were. It would be reasonable if they were not.

[Chris Whittington]

I think that is a silly question. Suppose he went by the bank to deposit a personal check while at the event? Is THAT not allowed? Can't meet family or friends for dinner? Can't visit a local "thing to see"? You guys will do ANYTHING possible to cast aspersions on David, or anyone else you don't agree with on this topic.

Personally I have never had a job I thought claimed me for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Would not have such a job.

Dis you read Mark Watkins link concerning Levy?

look, this takes us to the Nintendo-Loop affair. let's hypothesise a scenario ... Nintendo want a chess program, they do a google search and find a link to icga. they send an email to the president.

I would argue, at this point, sonce igca is supposed to be a programmers organization, set up by programmers (as you are so fond of telling us) that the president lets it be known that Nintendo seeks a program, and suggests interested programmers contact them.

Or, does president, or representative, select a program, make a deal with Nintendo, and rake off a fee?

We don't know what happened in case Loop. Were icga registered commercial programmers advised?

No idea what happened, so I am not interested, since speculation leads nowhere. If you are talking about the MSO stuff by Levy, I glanced at it but it was old news several years ago. Not sure what it has to do with anything _here_. Since I am not a "commercial programmer" I have no idea if they were contacted or not, and don't care. It would be reasonable if they were. It would be reasonable if they were not.

I wasn't talking about that MSO stuff, Mark Waykins posted the link, one I hadn't seen before.

last time you answered this Nintendo speculated scanerio, it was: above your pay grade. But you should be interested. you started a programmers organisation, you are fond of telling us, but you are not interested if your elected board intercepts incomimg queries of interest to the paying programmer members? Does it or doesn't it? if an email comes in addressed to the board icga, can the board members answer that email in their own personal interest? do they? you don't know or care?

[Rebel]

I think that is a silly question. Suppose he went by the bank to deposit a personal check while at the event? Is THAT not allowed? Can't meet family or friends for dinner? Can't visit a local "thing to see"? You guys will do ANYTHING possible to cast aspersions on David, or anyone else you don't agree with on this topic.

Personally I have never had a job I thought claimed me for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Would not have such a job.

Dis you read Mark Watkins link concerning Levy?

look, this takes us to the Nintendo-Loop affair. let's hypothesise a scenario ... Nintendo want a chess program, they do a google search and find a link to icga. they send an email to the president.

I would argue, at this point, sonce igca is supposed to be a programmers organization, set up by programmers (as you are so fond of telling us) that the president lets it be known that Nintendo seeks a program, and suggests interested programmers contact them.

Or, does president, or representative, select a program, make a deal with Nintendo, and rake off a fee?

We don't know what happened in case Loop. Were icga registered commercial programmers advised?

No idea what happened, so I am not interested,

You should be angry, that Nintendo money belongs to Fabien.

[hyatt]

I think that is a silly question. Suppose he went by the bank to deposit a personal check while at the event? Is THAT not allowed? Can't meet family or friends for dinner? Can't visit a local "thing to see"? You guys will do ANYTHING possible to cast aspersions on David, or anyone else you don't agree with on this topic.

Personally I have never had a job I thought claimed me for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Would not have such a job.

Dis you read Mark Watkins link concerning Levy?

look, this takes us to the Nintendo-Loop affair. let's hypothesise a scenario ... Nintendo want a chess program, they do a google search and find a link to icga. they send an email to the president.

I would argue, at this point, sonce igca is supposed to be a programmers organization, set up by programmers (as you are so fond of telling us) that the president lets it be known that Nintendo seeks a program, and suggests interested programmers contact them.

Or, does president, or representative, select a program, make a deal with Nintendo, and rake off a fee?

We don't know what happened in case Loop. Were icga registered commercial programmers advised?

No idea what happened, so I am not interested,

You should be angry, that Nintendo money belongs to Fabien.

If Fabien cares, I would imagine he knows how to proceed...

[terrapene]

You missed more then 1 Billion people
Check here counting: http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/
Imagine what is more missed in these talks..

Vael, the world populatoin is vastly overestimated.
this is done by governements trying to increase their status.
and by UN to scare a population crisis.
French demographers (pierre CHAUNU) estimated it is 4-5 billion, no lie.
every one else is in the pay, produce the results on demand.

[Rebel]

I think that is a silly question. Suppose he went by the bank to deposit a personal check while at the event? Is THAT not allowed? Can't meet family or friends for dinner? Can't visit a local "thing to see"? You guys will do ANYTHING possible to cast aspersions on David, or anyone else you don't agree with on this topic.

Personally I have never had a job I thought claimed me for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Would not have such a job.

Dis you read Mark Watkins link concerning Levy?

look, this takes us to the Nintendo-Loop affair. let's hypothesise a scenario ... Nintendo want a chess program, they do a google search and find a link to icga. they send an email to the president.

I would argue, at this point, sonce igca is supposed to be a programmers organization, set up by programmers (as you are so fond of telling us) that the president lets it be known that Nintendo seeks a program, and suggests interested programmers contact them.

Or, does president, or representative, select a program, make a deal with Nintendo, and rake off a fee?

We don't know what happened in case Loop. Were icga registered commercial programmers advised?

No idea what happened, so I am not interested,

You should be angry, that Nintendo money belongs to Fabien.

If Fabien cares, I would imagine he knows how to proceed...

But you could help. With your influence you could ask Jaap (since he wrote the contract with Nintendo) for the person to contact at Nintendo and provide Fabien with that information.

[Rebel]

I think that is a silly question. Suppose he went by the bank to deposit a personal check while at the event? Is THAT not allowed? Can't meet family or friends for dinner? Can't visit a local "thing to see"? You guys will do ANYTHING possible to cast aspersions on David, or anyone else you don't agree with on this topic.

Personally I have never had a job I thought claimed me for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Would not have such a job.

David's abilities to organize events are not in question, nor the production of the journal etc. That's all fine. But the day will come he will retire, he is 70 now. And when that happens the CC division of the ICGA will be in big trouble. Who do you think has the capacity to organize the annual WCCC and everything that comes with it?

So there, I said it, I don't lack balance.

You are an academic and as you have indicated many times are not much interested in the financials that automatically come with running an organization but you are talking to 2 ex commercials who have been in the same shoes and know that's all fine to make a living from CC and all what comes with that without losing their passion for CC, else why would be here 10-15 years after?

And that's the part I blame David for, unlike commercial chess programmers David in his role as president and main responsible has a responsibilty to promoto CC passionately, serve the general interest. And it has become a job mainly. I take it for granted he was as passionate as you and me in the early days, he lost it during time, what dominates now is money. David doesn't give a hood about computer chess any longer, he cares for his annual WCCC tournament.

I noticed that already in the early 90's and it's best demonstrated by his continueis inflexible and destructive behaviour in the RF case. His actions damaged computer chess, he doesn't care about the split CC community. No leadership, nothing. The ICCA once was an organization I could subscribe as a uniting factor of chess programmers and chess programing in the widest sense of the word and promote it speaking with one voice.

Nothing has left, when confrontated with a letter of 16 angry programmers he had only one thing in mind, saving his annual WCCC by the Scorched Earth tactic.

In a normal world we would fire such as man, but by the lack of a good successor, it's maybe better to keep him after all?

[Chris Whittington]

I think that is a silly question. Suppose he went by the bank to deposit a personal check while at the event? Is THAT not allowed? Can't meet family or friends for dinner? Can't visit a local "thing to see"? You guys will do ANYTHING possible to cast aspersions on David, or anyone else you don't agree with on this topic.

Personally I have never had a job I thought claimed me for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Would not have such a job.

David's abilities to organize events are not in question, nor the production of the journal etc. That's all fine. But the day will come he will retire, he is 70 now. And when that happens the CC division of the ICGA will be in big trouble. Who do you think has the capacity to organize the annual WCCC and everything that comes with it?

So there, I said it, I don't lack balance.

You are an academic and as you have indicated many times are not much interested in the financials that automatically come with running an organization but you are talking to 2 ex commercials who have been in the same shoes and know that's all fine to make a living from CC and all what comes with that without losing their passion for CC, else why would be here 10-15 years after?

And that's the part I blame David for, unlike commercial chess programmers David in his role as president and main responsible has a responsibilty to promoto CC passionately, serve the general interest. And it has become a job mainly. I take it for granted he was as passionate as you and me in the early days, he lost it during time, what dominates now is money. David doesn't give a hood about computer chess any longer, he cares for his annual WCCC tournament.

I noticed that already in the early 90's and it's best demonstrated by his continueis inflexible and destructive behaviour in the RF case. His actions damaged computer chess, he doesn't care about the split CC community. No leadership, nothing. The ICCA once was an organization I could subscribe as a uniting factor of chess programmers and chess programing in the widest sense of the word and promote it speaking with one voice.

Nothing has left, when confrontated with a letter of 16 angry programmers he had only one thing in mind, saving his annual WCCC by the Scorched Earth tactic.

In a normal world we would fire such as man, but by the lack of a good successor, it's maybe better to keep him after all?

You can vote for me! My manifesto:
a. examine in detail all previous icga accounts
b. open icga accounts in full for membership scrutiny (if you can't see the accounts you can't know what is being done)
c. make a complete review of the icga-Rybka case
d. re-structure the icga for the 21st Century, lose aspects made redundant by new technology and promote use of new technology for the rest
e. divorce icga from business interests
f. use new technology to introduce democracy into the structure
g. eliminate hierarchy and promote horizontal networks