Computer Chess Biggest Liar

[kingliveson]

You won't get past chapter one before figuring out who wrote the thing.

What if you only figure it out 5 years later?

"...but he got away with it for soooo long! Doesn't that count for something?" -- do you really take that argument seriously?

We occasionally see a case where someone committed a major crime. Even murder. They disappear for 25 years, become "model citizens" where they live, then get caught and off to prison they go. Sad, because they seem to have gotten their life back on the right path, but still, they did the crime... I'm sympathetic in that case. But for Vas? Hardly. Why? Have you seen ANY evidence that he has turned himself around? Admitted his wrongdoing? Tried to explain why he did it? Just continual denials and false statements. Hard to have much sympathy there...

Are you saying you disagree with Jeremy as to who holds position number 1 on the thread's question?

[hyatt]

You won't get past chapter one before figuring out who wrote the thing.

What if you only figure it out 5 years later?

"...but he got away with it for soooo long! Doesn't that count for something?" -- do you really take that argument seriously?

We occasionally see a case where someone committed a major crime. Even murder. They disappear for 25 years, become "model citizens" where they live, then get caught and off to prison they go. Sad, because they seem to have gotten their life back on the right path, but still, they did the crime... I'm sympathetic in that case. But for Vas? Hardly. Why? Have you seen ANY evidence that he has turned himself around? Admitted his wrongdoing? Tried to explain why he did it? Just continual denials and false statements. Hard to have much sympathy there...

Are you saying you disagree with Jeremy as to who holds position number 1 on the thread's question?

I see two candidates. What are the tie-breakers? Continued denial of obviously proven facts? Both meet this. Copied code and denied it? Both meet this. Both sell a program with someone else's code in it? Both again. I have a hard time coming up with something to break the tie, therefore I think there is a clear tie for first, and the next person relegates to 3rd...

[Hood]

Coding standards (with which I also have some professional experience) cannot erase the "fingerprint" we're talking about, any more than a style guide causes every journalist to write the same.

Jeremy

I am curious to see you looking for fingerprints in the system which has hundred thousends lines of Cobol code and was written during 50 years.

My position is, if sth is stolen take guy to the court and if guilty he will be penalised but do not make a Lynch court and offend him on the forum. Have a dignity concerning ourselves.

Rgds
Hood

[hyatt]

Not hard at all. In the 70's I worked on a big operating system project, on the xerox CP-5 operating system. I could tell you which parts Dick Hustvedt wrote as I looked at them (he worked for xerox in the O/S group). Programmers have a recognizable style of coding, structure, comments, data structures, even a particularly common sub-set of the assembly language instructions they prefer...

[Uly]

"...but he got away with it for soooo long! Doesn't that count for something?" -- do you really take that argument seriously?

Please don't build a straw-man Jeremy, that was never my argument.

I just was showing that the analogy of bob didn't work, nor applied to the case, when he said "1. Take a book by Matt Reilly. Tear the cover off. White out the title. Give it to someone that reads a lot of fiction. You won't get past chapter one before figuring out who wrote the thing. Reilly has the fastest-pace books I have ever read."

The fact is, people read past the first chapter, they read the whole book, for 5 years, and they didn't figure out who wrote the thing.

My argument is not for Vas's innocence, but against bob's analogy.

[Jeremy Bernstein]

My argument is not for Vas's innocence, but against bob's analogy.

Fair enough. Regardless of how long the fraud was perpetrated without anyone noticing, it remains fraud IMO.

EDIT: Actually, this entire line of reasoning makes no sense: there were people who, from the very beginning of Rybka, said more or less exactly what has been confirmed in the ICGA investigation. So your "5 years without noticing" doesn't really hold water, either.

jb

[hyatt]

"...but he got away with it for soooo long! Doesn't that count for something?" -- do you really take that argument seriously?

Please don't build a straw-man Jeremy, that was never my argument.

I just was showing that the analogy of bob didn't work, nor applied to the case, when he said "1. Take a book by Matt Reilly. Tear the cover off. White out the title. Give it to someone that reads a lot of fiction. You won't get past chapter one before figuring out who wrote the thing. Reilly has the fastest-pace books I have ever read."

The fact is, people read past the first chapter, they read the whole book, for 5 years, and they didn't figure out who wrote the thing.

My argument is not for Vas's innocence, but against bob's analogy.

People did NOT read past the first chapter. Very FEW even read the first chapter. It took 5 years to produce enough to prove, beyond any doubt, that Vas copied Rybka (and crafty we later discovered)...

[kingliveson]

You won't get past chapter one before figuring out who wrote the thing.

What if you only figure it out 5 years later?

"...but he got away with it for soooo long! Doesn't that count for something?" -- do you really take that argument seriously?

We occasionally see a case where someone committed a major crime. Even murder. They disappear for 25 years, become "model citizens" where they live, then get caught and off to prison they go. Sad, because they seem to have gotten their life back on the right path, but still, they did the crime... I'm sympathetic in that case. But for Vas? Hardly. Why? Have you seen ANY evidence that he has turned himself around? Admitted his wrongdoing? Tried to explain why he did it? Just continual denials and false statements. Hard to have much sympathy there...

Are you saying you disagree with Jeremy as to who holds position number 1 on the thread's question?

I see two candidates. What are the tie-breakers? Continued denial of obviously proven facts? Both meet this. Copied code and denied it? Both meet this. Both sell a program with someone else's code in it? Both again. I have a hard time coming up with something to break the tie, therefore I think there is a clear tie for first, and the next person relegates to 3rd...

The tie breaker might just be "Houdini does NOT contain any Ippolit code."

[kingliveson]

Coding standards (with which I also have some professional experience) cannot erase the "fingerprint" we're talking about, any more than a style guide causes every journalist to write the same.

Jeremy

I am curious to see you looking for fingerprints in the system which has hundred thousends lines of Cobol code and was written during 50 years.

My position is, if sth is stolen take guy to the court and if guilty he will be penalised but do not make a Lynch court and offend him on the forum. Have a dignity concerning ourselves.

Rgds
Hood

I have no idea what you are talking about. We are taking about a bold-face liar.

[kingliveson]

@ Uly, I understood what you meant.