Rebel wrote:Thank you for clarification.BB+ wrote: Overall, I just can't see much either way. There are various places where Rybka follows a different agenda (such as re-factoring the code), but on the other hand, there are an assortment of orderings (most rather minor by themselves) that are candidates for being different, that in fact are not. One could argue that in most of the places where there is a re-ordering, there is some external reason for this, possibly from the performance standpoint (like shelter_storm in pawn_eval), or maybe due to ease of development. However, I'm not completely convinced that every Rybka/Fruit difference could be explained by this.
An alternative example where Rybka does re-order a few Fruit elements is in the UCI parsing, where Fruit works alphabetically (binc/btime/depth/infinite/mate/movestogo/movetime/nodes/ponder/searchmoves/winc/wtime), while Rybka reorders this (winc/wtime/binc/btime/depth/infinite/movestogo/movetime/ponder), placing winc/wtime at the front (and not having mate/nodes/searchmoves). So other than winc/wtime at the front, it's alphabetical in Rybka -- but the winc/wtime change shouldn't be simply ignored. Again it is unclear to me whether there might be some external "testing"(?) reason why one might want to move winc/wtime to the front. Zach or I could track down the order in Rybka 1.6.1, if it is thought relevant.
To say it in a few words, you basically discovered that comparing the eval of 2 good chess programs contain about the same amount of chess knowledge and its implementation look similar.
I could have told you that from the beginning.
I don't see where that is the case at all. One could certainly compare Crafty and Fruit evals, Crafty is definitely stronger, but not by hundreds of Elo. That will shoot holes in your conclusion.
I don't get this claim of "everybody does the same things, in the same order, in the same way..." That is contrary to anything I have seen in looking at other programs over the years. It is more like "everybody does lots of the same things, but in different ways, in different orders, in different places..."