Crafty accused of copying Fruit PST

[K I Hyams]

Thanks for the praise Samer.

I was actually replying to someone that asked that if a PST table was both in Fruit and Crafty (+8), that from where the table was coming from. It came from Fruit.

But saying "Crafty a clone of Fruit" does that in fewer words (he knew what I meant when I read that), even though "clone" doesn't actually have a definition besides genetics.

*Checks dictionary*

Oh wait, it does:

Clone:
noun: an unauthorized copy or imitation

I don't think bob was authorized to use Fruit's PST table in Crafty, so from this angle, it counts.

And I stand for what I said, Crafty hasn't been scrutinized because people thought they wouldn't find anything a priori. Now that something has been found, maybe that will change.

Only the lowest strata of the cohort who worship on the Rybka forum would feel comfortable implying that Crafty was a Fruit clone.

You mention “a priori” assumptions. Bob is, of course, brilliant at leading people into making such assumptions. Not only does he release fully documented code specifically to fool people into thinking that he has nothing to hide, he also systematically focuses their attention on the specific areas in which he doesn’t want them to look, even to the extent of issuing a specific challenge to Miguel.

Bob also prepares meticulously and has a talent for precognition. He knew that he was going to steal Fruit code many many years before Fruit was released and so he carefully prepared the ground for his cunning deception by opening Crafty code at that point.

I do not have a particularly strong stomach; I haven’t been following the events on the Rybka forum particularly closely and so I could be wrong. However, I will say that the impression that I get is that, unlike some of the members of that forum who appear to be held in high esteem, Miguel is not cheap; I do not think that he has ever stooped low enough to accuse Bob of stealing Fruit code. In fact, I seem to remember that he made it clear in his original post that he was making no such accusation. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

[Rebel]

Some things never worked for me. Tracy took a look (specifically) at Fruit's queen scoring since we did almost nothing in that regard. First thing he noticed was mobility. We tried Fruit's simple approach (count squares * constant). We tried our weighted approach where attacking central squares is worth more than edge squares, etc. Not one dang thing worked for queen mobility as it appeared to in Fruit.

This is interesting... I remember a recent discussion you denying not being influenced by open source code such as Strelka (Rybka 1.0)

[Rebel]

Rephrase,

This is interesting... I remember a recent discussion you denying being influenced by open source code such as Strelka (Rybka 1.0)

Skipping the word "not".

Apologies.

[hyatt]

Some things never worked for me. Tracy took a look (specifically) at Fruit's queen scoring since we did almost nothing in that regard. First thing he noticed was mobility. We tried Fruit's simple approach (count squares * constant). We tried our weighted approach where attacking central squares is worth more than edge squares, etc. Not one dang thing worked for queen mobility as it appeared to in Fruit.

This is interesting... I remember a recent discussion you denying not being influenced by open source code such as Strelka (Rybka 1.0)

Actually, I SPECIFICALLY denied copying ideas or code from the "exposed Rybka code" that is in ip*/robo*.

That was your specific claim, if you recall, and where you produced exactly zero evidence to support it despite many requests...

So, your point would be, again?

[veritas]

Some things never worked for me. Tracy took a look (specifically) at Fruit's queen scoring since we did almost nothing in that regard. First thing he noticed was mobility. We tried Fruit's simple approach (count squares * constant). We tried our weighted approach where attacking central squares is worth more than edge squares, etc. Not one dang thing worked for queen mobility as it appeared to in Fruit.

This is interesting... I remember a recent discussion you denying not being influenced by open source code such as Strelka (Rybka 1.0)

Actually, I SPECIFICALLY denied copying ideas or code from the "exposed Rybka code" that is in ip*/robo*.

That was your specific claim, if you recall, and where you produced exactly zero evidence to support it despite many requests...

So, your point would be, again?

"exposed Rybka code" that is in ip*/robo*.

strange others call IPPOLIT clean and YOU continually libel IPOLIT suggest you either prove your libel or STFU and stand your own ground without doing EXACTLY what the scum rybka fanboys are doing

[kingliveson]

"exposed Rybka code" that is in ip*/robo*.

strange others call IPPOLIT clean and YOU continually libel IPOLIT suggest you either prove your libel or STFU and stand your own ground without doing EXACTLY what the scum rybka fanboys are doing

Seriously, please tone it down a bit. There's no need to be disrespectful.

[Sean Evans]

"exposed Rybka code" that is in ip*/robo*.

strange others call IPPOLIT clean and YOU continually libel IPOLIT suggest you either prove your libel or STFU and stand your own ground without doing EXACTLY what the scum rybka fanboys are doing

Seriously, please tone it down a bit. There's no need to be disrespectful.

kingliveson...You shut your mouth!

[Rebel]

Some things never worked for me. Tracy took a look (specifically) at Fruit's queen scoring since we did almost nothing in that regard. First thing he noticed was mobility. We tried Fruit's simple approach (count squares * constant). We tried our weighted approach where attacking central squares is worth more than edge squares, etc. Not one dang thing worked for queen mobility as it appeared to in Fruit.

This is interesting... I remember a recent discussion you denying not being influenced by open source code such as Strelka (Rybka 1.0)

Actually, I SPECIFICALLY denied copying ideas or code from the "exposed Rybka code" that is in ip*/robo*.

That was your specific claim, if you recall, and where you produced exactly zero evidence to support it despite many requests...

So, your point would be, again?

My point..........?

I bet the point is crystal clear for most of the readers here.

Now that somebody found a Fruit table in Crafty, now that you above admit you have used and tested ideas from Fruit, nevertheless want me to believe that you 1) never studied an even stronger (and free BTW) source code Strelka (=Rybka) and 2) although having discussed Strelka (=Rybka) in fora still claim not to be influenced by that?

That does not make any sense at all.

[veritas]

"exposed Rybka code" that is in ip*/robo*.

strange others call IPPOLIT clean and YOU continually libel IPOLIT suggest you either prove your libel or STFU and stand your own ground without doing EXACTLY what the scum rybka fanboys are doing

Seriously, please tone it down a bit. There's no need to be disrespectful.

respect is earned not given to those who continually libel others

any respect i did have and i had some has gone down the u bend where many of the posts you and others seem to see as respectful enough not to criticize, you do not see fit to speak out against the continual libeling of Ippolit despite being one who has called them "clean" a strange sort of fence sitting bordering on either hypocrisy or cowardice only gains splinters in the backside and no respect, disappointing as i thought you were a little more than kranium , kevin and the fare weather and fake comrades . mind you the fact that you've never once posted one of your compiles on IPPOLIT or posted anything else there speaks volumes really

try moderating or at least criticizing " LIBEL "or at least defending those who've you've benefited greatly from and i will show some respect

no wander Iggor and Yakov are so p**** off with the whole scene ,
try respecting them as i do, not some jumped up muppet whose intent on being "crafty " and smearing others in attempt to distract from his own "amnesia"

[hyatt]

Some things never worked for me. Tracy took a look (specifically) at Fruit's queen scoring since we did almost nothing in that regard. First thing he noticed was mobility. We tried Fruit's simple approach (count squares * constant). We tried our weighted approach where attacking central squares is worth more than edge squares, etc. Not one dang thing worked for queen mobility as it appeared to in Fruit.

This is interesting... I remember a recent discussion you denying not being influenced by open source code such as Strelka (Rybka 1.0)

Actually, I SPECIFICALLY denied copying ideas or code from the "exposed Rybka code" that is in ip*/robo*.

That was your specific claim, if you recall, and where you produced exactly zero evidence to support it despite many requests...

So, your point would be, again?

"exposed Rybka code" that is in ip*/robo*.

strange others call IPPOLIT clean and YOU continually libel IPOLIT suggest you either prove your libel or STFU and stand your own ground without doing EXACTLY what the scum rybka fanboys are doing

I have not said much about ip* other than that I personally believe it is the result of reverse-engineering _something_. The code simply does not look like "human-produced" to me.

In the above context, however, Ed had claimed that Rybka's internal ideas were exposed by ip/robo* and that I had specifically copied ideas from that code and used it. Hence my explicit reference to ippolit since that was Ed's original claim that can be found here I believe...

Do I think ip* comes from Rybka? Yes. Am I sure? No. Is it an exact copy? No. How much is original and how much is a copy? I don't know nor care at this point. If you have noticed, I have always been "pro-discussion" about that family of programs. Vas claimed it was Rybka. Others have said it is not. To date, Mark W has offered the closest thing to a "pass" I have seen but I do not believe he said there is no parts of Rybka in IP, just that there are things in IP that are not in rybka... He can speak up if he wishes...