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Redfish and Bluefish sources?
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:46 am
by AlexChess
Hi!
I have decided to remove all not GPLv3 | MIT compliant engines, to leave more space on my SuperBlitz to authors (originals and derivatives) that share their engine advantaging the whole computer chess fans community (and most of them are obsolete, too
)
Does somebody have the sources of last bookmaker's engines 180921 and 210921, before I replace them too?
Best regards, Alex
My SuperBlitz :
https://www.chess.com/forum/view/game-a ... -17?page=1
Re: Redfish and Bluefish sources?
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 12:05 pm
by dorsz
Hi! Good decision.
I saw them released on chess2u without sources.
Consider resigning from learning/experience and books for individual engines on your next SuperBlitz tournament. It is like giving an extra time for these engines.
Re: Redfish and Bluefish sources?
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 6:47 pm
by AlexChess
dorsz wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 12:05 pm
Hi! Good decision.
I saw them released on chess2u without sources.
Consider resigning from learning/experience and books for individual engines on your next SuperBlitz tournament. It is like giving an extra time for these engines.
Yes, you are right.
I'm testing both your updated engines (without book) and they are already on top 10! I download your Dots4 minimal book and if supported by BSG I could choose it as default for ALL engines instead of Perfect 2021 of others too much customized.
Re: Redfish and Bluefish sources?
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 7:57 pm
by dorsz
Thanks for testing them.
DOTS4 is an opening test suite for running long matches between engines for example:
https://www.open-chess.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3337
It is not suitable for tournaments with a large number of engines with mini matches played between them like in your SuperBlitz.
Re: Redfish and Bluefish sources?
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:33 pm
by AlexChess
dorsz wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 7:57 pm
Thanks for testing them.
DOTS4 is an opening test suite for running long matches between engines for example:
https://www.open-chess.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3337
It is not suitable for tournaments with a large number of engines with mini matches played between them like in your SuperBlitz.
Ok,
I've tried to not include opening books, but very often especially with derivatives they was playing the same opening. Then I tried to select openings with approximately the same strength (eg Goi040121 for all MikeB's derivatives and M13.4 for SF-PB and Fat Titz) finally I used customized openings eg: Kayra1.1.bin for Kayra1.1) What do you suggest? Which is the best choice, same book for all engines in .bin format with neutrality +-30 centpawns but decent variety and interesting positions (preferably keeping queens)? Noob 4 Moves seems only in PGN / EPD and I have never experienced it on BSG.
Thank you in advance, Alex
Re: Redfish and Bluefish sources?
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:34 pm
by dorsz
I read your announcement "I'm doubling the number of games to reduce ELO error margin from +-75 to +-50."
Does it mean now your engines will play 4 games each other? If yes, I suggest to use 2 openings with reversed colors for all engines.
For example you can use position #1 and position #2 from DOTS4 for whole tournament. Besides it you should disable all things like learning/experiences/internal books/online DB etc. Later you can use positions #3 and #4 for next edition of your tournament if you are satisfied with the results. At first It can seem boring to use same openings for all matches, but I think it would be really interesting and super fair. Positions in DOTS4 are highly unbalanced, you should see much more often results like 1= or 0= than == and == between strong engines. Strong engines will have more difficult task to win the same opening with reversed color against engines from the bottom of the table.
Re: Redfish and Bluefish sources?
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 8:16 am
by AlexChess
dorsz wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:34 pm
I read your announcement "I'm doubling the number of games to reduce ELO error margin from +-75 to +-50."
Does it mean now your engines will play 4 games each other? If yes, I suggest to use 2 openings with reversed colors for all engines.
For example you can use position #1 and position #2 from DOTS4 for whole tournament. Besides it you should disable all things like learning/experiences/internal books/online DB etc. Later you can use positions #3 and #4 for next edition of your tournament if you are satisfied with the results. At first It can seem boring to use same openings for all matches, but I think it would be really interesting and super fair. Positions in DOTS4 are highly unbalanced, you should see much more often results like 1= or 0= than == and == between strong engines. Strong engines will have more difficult task to win the same opening with reversed color against engines from the bottom of the table.
The double number is 2 and still updating (a neverending story
) The limit is the space on the screen to publish a crosstable with so much engines. I'm thinking to drastically reduce them to TOP 10 and use World Championship time controls starting a NEW tournament to have meaningful results. With my weak hardware I cannot play multiple games together, so I'm really slow.
Re: Redfish and Bluefish sources?
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:33 am
by dorsz
One opening per tournament with reversed color is an option too.
Reducing engines to TOP10 tournament between Stockfish, Stockfish and Stockfish... is not very entertaining.
https://images.chesscomfiles.com/upload ... BY72fq.png
When I am looking at the crosstable I think you can remove Harmon v13.1 when you have Honey v14.
Where is Dragon engine?
Re: Redfish and Bluefish sources?
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 12:03 pm
by AlexChess
I'm publishing results of engines that have completed all the games (with BSG I can choose which games to play first) but continuously there are new updated engines and I must restart already played games
Maybe I must leave tournaments to rating lists of testers with Ryzen 9 and RTX 3080 graphic cards that can play 24 simultaneus games
My interest initially was to verify the rankings of all engines available: originals, Stockfish and derivatives GPLv3 or not, since I think that ratings list are very limited, also playing thousand of games. Engines like Sworfish, Blue Marlin, Fat Titz, Eman and Kayra are very interesting, but not included in CCRL, FGRL, CEGT or SPCC, This test is too much time consuming for me, then I prefer to restart playng chess and try to make my own PRIVATE SF derivative to learn how a modern engine works (I'm only an asp.net web developer
)
Re: Redfish and Bluefish sources?
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 7:12 pm
by sarona
AlexChess wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:33 pm
Noob 4 Moves seems only in PGN / EPD and I have never experienced it on BSG.
It is possible to use epds or pgns with Pham's Banksia GUI.
Alex, the DOTS opening suites are very good for some (head to head matches) of what you are trying to do. I use dorsz's engines and suites often. I think ChessDragon does as well.
Regards,
Ron
