Why is Stockfish so weak using SCID?

[Hagen]

I've been using Stockfish in Arena, ChessPartner, Chessbase and Aquarium GUI's without any problem. What I mean by that is Stockfish is very strong and kicks butt. But for some really strange reason...when I configure this engine to work using the open source chess database program SCID...Stockfish is shockingly weak. Has anybody seen this and is there a workaround?

[royb]

I've been using Stockfish in Arena, ChessPartner, Chessbase and Aquarium GUI's without any problem. What I mean by that is Stockfish is very strong and kicks butt. But for some really strange reason...when I configure this engine to work using the open source chess database program SCID...Stockfish is shockingly weak. Has anybody seen this and is there a workaround?

What testing have you done that demonstrates Stockfish's weakness when using SCID? Is it just analysis of positions and you can see that it does not find strong moves? I use SCID on Linux (and have for years) and Stockfish seems every bit as strong as its reputation when I use it for analysis.

[Hagen]

I really don't understand why Stockfish is so weak in SCID. I have Windows XP Service Pack 2 and Stockfish in SCID is extremely weak. I play tactical games with it and it gets crushed every time. I've even tried fiddling with the settings within SCID to see if this makes any difference and still...Stockfish is very weak. Even playing shuffle chess is no different. Stockfish is unbelievably blind when playing with the SCID GUI. I believe the developers need to address this strange problem. I've been using other engines in this GUI with no strength decrease issue whatsoever...but Stockfish is a real shocker.

[royb]

I really don't understand why Stockfish is so weak in SCID. I have Windows XP Service Pack 2 and Stockfish in SCID is extremely weak. I play tactical games with it and it gets crushed every time. I've even tried fiddling with the settings within SCID to see if this makes any difference and still...Stockfish is very weak. Even playing shuffle chess is no different. Stockfish is unbelievably blind when playing with the SCID GUI. I believe the developers need to address this strange problem. I've been using other engines in this GUI with no strength decrease issue whatsoever...but Stockfish is a real shocker.

Tactical games -- that does not use Stockfish when you play tactical games. It uses Phalanx if memory serves. Try playing a "serious game" and you can then pick Stockfish as an engine. That should make a huge difference for you!

[Hagen]

You're correct about the difference between using Serious and Tactical. And you're also right about SCID using Phalanx as the engine when playing "tactical" games. But I'm referring to playing the "Serious" game option using Stockfish in SCID. It still plays horribly weak games using this GUI...and I have no explanations why. But when I play using Stockfish on the other GUI's like Arena and Aquarium...Stockfish is very strong.

[royb]

You're correct about the difference between using Serious and Tactical. And you're also right about SCID using Phalanx as the engine when playing "tactical" games. But I'm referring to playing the "Serious" game option using Stockfish in SCID. It still plays horribly weak games using this GUI...and I have no explanations why. But when I play using Stockfish on the other GUI's like Arena and Aquarium...Stockfish is very strong.

I do not see what you are seeing when playing Serious games -- Stockfish seems quite strong on my system. I just had it play Fruit-2.3.1 and it won (though it did go to the endgame). Fruit is about 2800-ish ELO. One game means nothing for comparison of ratings, but if one engine is to be horribly weak, then it seems rather unlikely that it would grind out a win vs a pretty strong engine like Fruit.

There may be something wrong with your SCID install. Perhaps uninstalling and reinstalling will help? I'm guessing of course...

[Hagen]

There is nothing wrong with my install for SCID. I've been using other engines like Rybka and Komodo as well and I don't see any playing style degradation with these. Only Stockfish. Wait a minute. Let me uninstall Stockfish and retry the engine again.

Edit: It appears I've been using the Stockfish Crab 1 beta...the one that is very weak. My apologies everybody. I've been accidentally using the wrong Stockfish engine for chess playing. I've correctly configured the right version of Stockfish and now...it's working like a charm...kicking my ass as needed.

Sorry for the alarm over Stockfish...but it appears this engine is working just fine. Just don't use the Crab 1.0 beta. This is the beta which is using settings making Stockfish very weak. Avoid it like the plague. Now...if only SCID would recognize Chess960 castling rules...everything would be great. I hope the next iteration of SCID allows Fischer Random chess.

[royb]

There is nothing wrong with my install for SCID. I've been using other engines like Rybka and Komodo as well and I don't see any playing style degradation with these. Only Stockfish. Wait a minute. Let me uninstall Stockfish and retry the engine again.

Edit: It appears I've been using the Stockfish Crab 1 beta...the one that is very weak. My apologies everybody. I've been accidentally using the wrong Stockfish engine for chess playing. I've correctly configured the right version of Stockfish and now...it's working like a charm...kicking my ass as needed.

Sorry for the alarm over Stockfish...but it appears this engine is working just fine. Just don't use the Crab 1.0 beta. This is the beta which is using settings making Stockfish very weak. Avoid it like the plague. Now...if only SCID would recognize Chess960 castling rules...everything would be great. I hope the next iteration of SCID allows Fischer Random chess.

While Crab appears to be a bit weaker than Stockfish, it's not MUCH weaker (perhaps 50 ELO?). Is it possible that the Windows compile of Crab is somehow at fault? I've used Crab on Linux and it is in the same overall range of strength that Stockfish is.

[Hagen]

Well in that case there definitely is a problem with the Windows compile. Take a look at this game...played today.

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2010.06.21"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Hagen"]
[Black "Stockfish Crab 1.0 Beta"]
[Result "1-0"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nxe5 d6 4. Nf3 Nxe4 5. d4 d5 6. Bd3 Bf5 7. c4 a6 8.
O-O h6 9. Nc3 Nc6 10. Re1 b6 11. cxd5 Bg6 12. Nxe4 Bd6 13. Nxd6+ Kd7 14.
Nb7 Na5 15. Qa4+ Nc6 {Black resigns.} 1-0

[royb]

Well in that case there definitely is a problem with the Windows compile. Take a look at this game...played today.

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2010.06.21"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Hagen"]
[Black "Stockfish Crab 1.0 Beta"]
[Result "1-0"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nxe5 d6 4. Nf3 Nxe4 5. d4 d5 6. Bd3 Bf5 7. c4 a6 8.
O-O h6 9. Nc3 Nc6 10. Re1 b6 11. cxd5 Bg6 12. Nxe4 Bd6 13. Nxd6+ Kd7 14.
Nb7 Na5 15. Qa4+ Nc6 {Black resigns.} 1-0

Yes, I agree with you! Something is seriously wrong with the Windows compile of Crab (at least the version you obtained). I run Linux and can verify that Crab as compiled on my Linux system will NOT play so horribly (... a6 is a horrible move for starters and they get worse after that!). Very curious...