Houdini 1.03a difference to Rybka 4 in analysis?

[Zarkon]

Rybka 4 and Houdini 1.03a seem to be fairly similar in strength. I wonder if anyone has examples of positions where one of the engines does better than the other? Please post below!

Thanks!

[Eduard Nemeth]

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2010.08.10"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Teststellung Endspiel"]
[Black "1. Kg7! Matt in 6"]
[Result "1-0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "5K2/5p2/6P1/8/8/3N4/rp5R/rk6 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "0"]

{1. Kg7! Matt in 6.} 1-0

5K2/5p2/6P1/8/8/3N4/rp5R/rk6 w - - 0 1

1. Kg7!!

This position was post in german CSS Forum:

http://forum.computerschach.de/cgi-bin/ ... ?pid=29405

5K2/5p2/6P1/8/8/3N4/rp5R/rk6 w - -

Engine: Houdini 1.03a w32 1-cpu (1024 MB)
von Robert Houdart

19/43 0:06 0.00 1.gxf7 Ta8+ 2.Kg7 T1a2 3.f8D Txf8
4.Kxf8 Ka1 5.Sxb2 Txb2 6.Th1+ Ka2
7.Ke7 Tb6 8.Tg1 Kb2 9.Tg4 Kc3 10.Kd7 Th6
11.Tg3+ Kd4 12.Tg1 Th7+ 13.Kd6 Th6+
14.Kd7 (11.810.786) 1855

19/47 0:08 +0.04++ 1.Kg7 fxg6 2.Kh6 g5 3.Kh5 g4 4.Kh4 g3
5.Kxg3 (16.027.516) 1828

19/47 0:08 +0.13++ 1.Kg7 fxg6 2.Kh6 g5 3.Kh5 g4 4.Kh4 g3
5.Kxg3 (16.142.535) 1827

19/47 0:09 +0.34++ 1.Kg7 fxg6 2.Kh6 g5 3.Kh5 g4 4.Kh4 g3
5.Kxg3 (17.417.573) 1814

19/47 0:10 +1.10++ 1.Kg7 fxg6 2.Kh6 g5 3.Kh5 g4 4.Kh4 g3
5.Kxg3 (19.441.637) 1810

19/47 0:12 +3.99++ 1.Kg7 fxg6 2.Kh6 g5 3.Kh5 g4 4.Kh4 g3
5.Kxg3 (21.992.802) 1820

19/50 0:19 +11.60++ 1.Kg7 fxg6 2.Kh6 g5 3.Kh5 g4 4.Kh4 g3
5.Kxg3 (38.037.635) 1963

19/50 0:19 +M6 1.Kg7 fxg6 2.Kh6 g5 3.Kh5 g4 4.Kh4 g3
5.Kxg3 Ta5 6.Txb2+ (38.055.497) 1964

ED.

[Eduard Nemeth]

k5b1/1p6/p7/P3B3/1KP5/8/8/8 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Houdini 1.03a w32 1_CPU:

1...Ka7 2.Lc7 Lf7 3.Kc5 Le6 4.Kd4 Lf7 5.c5 Le8 6.Le5 La4 7.Lh2 Lb5 8.Lf4 Lc6 9.Le5 Lb5 10.Lh2 Ld7 11.Kd5 Le8 12.Kd4 La4
= (0.07) Tiefe: 14/21 00:00:00 440kN
1...Ka7 2.Lc7 Lf7 3.Kc5 Le6 4.Kd4 Lf7 5.c5 Le8 6.Le5 La4 7.Lh2 Lb5 8.Lf4 Le8 9.Le5 La4
= (0.07) Tiefe: 15/24 00:00:00 650kN
1...Ka7 2.Lc7 Lf7 3.Kc5 Le6 4.Kd4 Lf7 5.c5 Le8 6.Le5 La4 7.Lf4 Ld7 8.Ld6 Lg4 9.Le5
= (0.07) Tiefe: 16/24 00:00:00 1045kN
1...Ka7 2.Lc7 Lf7 3.Kc5 Le6 4.Kd4 Lf7 5.c5 Le8 6.Le5 La4 7.Lf4 Ld7 8.Ke5 Le8 9.Lc1 Lc6 10.Kd6 Kb8
= (0.07) Tiefe: 17/25 00:00:00 1769kN
1...Ka7 2.Lc7 Lf7 3.Kc5 Le6 4.Kd4 Lf7 5.c5 Le8 6.Le5 La4 7.Lf4 Ka8 8.Lc7 Ld7 9.Lh2 Le8 10.Lf4 Ka7 11.Le5 La4
= (0.07) Tiefe: 18/27 00:00:01 2599kN
1...Ka7 2.Lc7 Lf7 3.Kc5 Le6 4.Kd4 Lf7 5.c5 Le8 6.Le5 La4 7.Lf4 Ld7 8.Ke5 La4 9.Lc1 Le8 10.Kd4 Lc6
= (0.07) Tiefe: 19/28 00:00:02 4206kN
1...Ka7 2.Lc7 Lf7 3.Kc5 Le6 4.Kd4 Lf7 5.c5 Le8 6.Le5 La4 7.Lf4 Ld7 8.Kd5 Lb5 9.Le5 Ka8 10.Kd4 Le8 11.Lf4 Ka7 12.Le5 La4
= (0.07) Tiefe: 20/29 00:00:03 6570kN
1...Ka7 2.Lc7 Lf7 3.Kc5 Le6 4.Kd4 Lf7 5.c5 Le8 6.Le5 La4 7.Lf4 Ld7 8.Kd5 La4 9.Lc7 Ka8 10.Kd4 Lc6 11.Lh2 Le8 12.Lf4 Ka7 13.Le5 La4
= (0.07) Tiefe: 21/31 00:00:04 9795kN
1...Ka7 2.Lc7 Lf7 3.Kc5 Le6 4.Kd4 Lf7 5.c5 Le8 6.Le5 La4 7.Lf4 Ld7 8.Kd5 La4 9.Lc7 Ka8 10.Kd4 Le8 11.Lf4 Ka7 12.Lc1 Lc6 13.Lf4 Ld7 14.Kd5
= (0.07) Tiefe: 22/32 00:00:06 13968kN
1...Ka7 2.Lc7 Lf7 3.Kc5 Le6 4.Kd4 Lf7 5.c5 Le8 6.Le5 La4 7.Lf4 Ld7 8.Kd5 La4 9.Lc7 Ka8 10.Kd4 Le8 11.Le5 Lb5 12.Lf4 La4 13.Lc7 Le8
= (0.07) Tiefe: 23/35 00:00:09 20181kN
1...Ka7 2.Lc7 Lf7 3.Kc5 Le6 4.Kd4 Lf7 5.c5 Le8 6.Le5 La4 7.Lf4 Ld7 8.Kd5 La4 9.Lc7 Ka8 10.Kd4 Le8 11.Le5 Lb5 12.Lf4 Lc6 13.Lh2 Le8 14.Lf4 Ka7 15.Lc1 Lc6 16.Lf4 Ld7 17.Kd5
= (0.07) Tiefe: 24/36 00:00:14 30058kN
1...Ka7 2.Lc7 Lf7 3.Kc5 Le6 4.Kd4 Lf7 5.c5 Le8 6.Le5 La4 7.Lf4 Ld7 8.Kd5 La4 9.Lc7 Ka8 10.Kd4 Le8 11.Le5 Lb5 12.Lf4 Ka7 13.Le3 Ld7 14.Ke5
= (0.07) Tiefe: 25/39 00:00:19 40937kN
1...Ka7 2.Lc7 Lf7 3.Kc5 Le6 4.Kd4 Lf7 5.c5 Le8 6.Le5 La4 7.Lf4 Ld7 8.Kd5 La4 9.Lc7 Ka8 10.Kd4 Le8 11.Le5 Ka7 12.Kd5 Lb5 13.Ld6 Ld7 14.Kd4 Lg4 15.Le5
= (0.07) Tiefe: 26/39 00:00:29 60943kN

Rybka 4 plays 1...Bxc4 and loses. Original post read here:

http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... ?tid=17938

After 1...Bxc4

k7/1p6/p7/P3B3/1Kb5/8/8/8 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Houdini 1.03a w32 2_CPU:

2.Kxc4 Ka7 3.Kc5 Ka8 4.Kd6 b5 5.axb6 Kb7 6.Ld4 a5 7.Kc5 a4 8.Lb2 a3 9.Lxa3 Ka6 10.Kc6 Ka5 11.b7 Ka4 12.Lc5 Kb3 13.Kd5 Kc3 14.b8D Kd3 15.Db5+ Kd2 16.Ke4 Kc3 17.Db4+ Kc2
+- (93.52) Tiefe: 25 00:00:00 1496kN
2.Kxc4 Ka7 3.Kc5 Ka8 4.Kd6 b5 5.axb6 Kb7 6.Ld4 a5 7.Kc5 a4 8.Lb2 a3 9.Lxa3 Ka6 10.Kc6 Ka5 11.b7 Ka4 12.Lc5 Kb3 13.b8D+ Kc3 14.Dg3+ Kc4 15.Kd6
+- (#30) Tiefe: 26 00:00:01 4602kN
2.Kxc4 Ka7 3.Kc5 Ka8 4.Kd6 b5 5.axb6 Kb7 6.Ld4 a5 7.Kc5 a4 8.Lb2 a3 9.Lxa3 Ka6 10.Kc6 Ka5 11.b7 Ka4 12.Lc5 Kb3 13.b8D+ Kc3 14.Dg3+ Kc4 15.Kd6
+- (#30) Tiefe: 26 00:00:01 4602kN
2.Kxc4 Ka7 3.Kc5 Ka8 4.Kd6 b5 5.axb6 Kb7 6.Ld4 a5 7.Kc5 a4 8.Lb2 a3 9.Lxa3 Ka6 10.Kc6 Ka5 11.b7 Ka4 12.Lc5 Kb3 13.b8D+ Kc3 14.Dg3+ Kc4 15.Kd6
+- (#30) Tiefe: 26 00:00:01 4602kN
2.Kxc4 Ka7 3.Kc5 Ka8 4.Kd6 b5 5.axb6 Kb7 6.Ld4 a5 7.Kc5 a4 8.Lb2 a3 9.Lxa3 Ka6 10.Kc6 Ka5 11.b7 Ka4 12.Lc5 Kb3 13.b8D+ Kc3 14.Dg3+ Kc4 15.Kd6
+- (#30) Tiefe: 26 00:00:01 4602kN
2.Kxc4 Ka7 3.Kc5 Ka8 4.Kd6 b5 5.axb6 Kb7 6.Ld4 a5 7.Kc5 a4 8.Lb2 a3 9.Lxa3 Ka6 10.Kc6 Ka5 11.b7 Ka4 12.Lc5 Kb3 13.b8D+ Kc3 14.Dg3+ Kc4 15.Kd6
+- (#30) Tiefe: 26 00:00:01 4602kN
2.Kxc4 Ka7 3.Kc5 Ka8 4.Kd6 b5 5.axb6 Kb7 6.Ld4 a5 7.Kc5 a4 8.Lb2 a3 9.Lxa3 Ka6 10.Kc6 Ka5 11.b7 Ka4 12.Lc5 Kb3 13.b8D+ Kc3 14.Dg3+ Kc4 15.Kd6
+- (#30) Tiefe: 26 00:00:01 4602kN
2.Kxc4 Ka7 3.Kc5 Ka8 4.Kd6 b5 5.axb6 Kb7 6.Ld4 a5 7.Kc5 a4 8.Lb2 a3 9.Lxa3 Ka6 10.Kc6 Ka5 11.b7 Ka4 12.Lc5 Kb3 13.b8D+ Kc3 14.Dg3+ Kc4 15.Kd6
+- (#30) Tiefe: 26 00:00:01 4602kN
2.Kxc4 Ka7 3.Kc5 Ka8 4.Kd6 b5 5.axb6 Kb7 6.Ld4 a5 7.Kc5 a4 8.Lb2 a3 9.Lxa3 Ka6 10.Kc6 Ka5 11.b7 Ka4 12.Lc5 Kb3 13.b8D+ Kc3 14.Dg3+ Kc4 15.Kd6
+- (#30) Tiefe: 26 00:00:01 4602kN
2.Kxc4 Ka7 3.Kc5 Ka8 4.Kd6 b5 5.axb6 Kb7 6.Ld4 a5 7.Kc5 a4 8.Lb2 a3 9.Lxa3 Ka6 10.Kc6 Ka5 11.b7 Ka4 12.Lc5 Kb3 13.b8D+ Kc3 14.Dg3+ Kc4 15.Kd6
+- (#30) Tiefe: 26 00:00:01 4603kN
2.Kxc4 Ka7 3.Kc5 Ka8 4.Kd6 b5 5.axb6 Kb7 6.Ld4 a5 7.Kc5 a4 8.Lb2 a3 9.Lxa3 Ka6 10.Kc6 Ka5 11.b7 Ka4 12.Lc5 Kb3 13.b8D+ Kc3 14.Dg3+ Kc4 15.Kd6
+- (#30) Tiefe: 26 00:00:01 4603kN
2.Kxc4 Ka7 3.Kc5 Ka8 4.Kd6 b5 5.axb6 Kb7 6.Ld4 a5 7.Kc5 a4 8.Lb2 a3 9.Lxa3 Ka6 10.Kc6 Ka5 11.b7 Ka4 12.Lc5 Kb3 13.b8D+ Kc3 14.Dg3+ Kd2 15.Lb4+ Kc2 16.Kd5 Kc1 17.Dc3+ Kb1
+- (#18) Tiefe: 26 00:00:02 6524kN
2.Kxc4 Ka7 3.Kc5 Ka8 4.Kd6 b5 5.axb6 Kb7 6.Ld4 a5 7.Kc5 a4 8.Lb2 a3 9.Lxa3 Ka6 10.Kc6 Ka5 11.b7 Ka4 12.Lc5 Kb3 13.b8D+ Kc4 14.Df4+ Kc3 15.Dg3+ Kd2 16.Lb4+ Kc2 17.Dc3+ Kb1
+- (#18) Tiefe: 27 00:00:02 7717kN
2.Kxc4 Ka7 3.Kc5 Ka8 4.Kd6 b5 5.axb6 Kb7 6.Ld4 a5 7.Kc5 a4 8.Lb2 a3 9.Lxa3 Ka6 10.Kc6 Ka5 11.b7 Ka4 12.Lc5 Kb3 13.b8D+ Kc4 14.Df4+ Kc3 15.Dg3+ Kd2 16.Lb4+ Kc2 17.Dc3+ Kb1
+- (#18) Tiefe: 28 00:00:03 9358kN
2.Kxc4 Ka7 3.Kc5 Ka8 4.Kd6 b5 5.axb6 Kb7 6.Ld4 a5 7.Kc5 a4 8.Lb2 a3 9.Lxa3 Ka6 10.Kc6 Ka5 11.b7 Ka4 12.Lc5 Kb3 13.b8D+ Kc4 14.Df4+ Kc3 15.Dg3+ Kd2 16.Lb4+ Kc2 17.Dc3+ Kb1
+- (#18) Tiefe: 29 00:00:04 13678kN
2.Kxc4 Ka7 3.Kc5 Ka8 4.Kd6 b5 5.axb6 Kb7 6.Ld4 a5 7.Kc5 a4 8.Lb2 a3 9.Lxa3 Kc8 10.Kc6 Kd8 11.b7 Ke8 12.b8D+ Kf7 13.Dd6 Kg7 14.De6 Kh8 15.Dh6+ Kg8 16.Dg6+ Kh8 17.Lb2#
+- (#16) Tiefe: 30 00:00:08 28006kN
2.Kxc4 Ka7 3.Kc5 Ka8 4.Kd6 b5 5.axb6 Kb7 6.Ld4 a5 7.Kc5 a4 8.Lb2 a3 9.Lxa3 Kc8 10.Kc6 Kd8 11.b7 Ke8 12.b8D+ Kf7 13.Dd6 Kg7 14.De6 Kh8 15.Dh6+ Kg8 16.Dg6+ Kh8 17.Lb2#
+- (#16) Tiefe: 31 00:00:10 33506kN

ED.

[Zarkon]

Thanks for the examples, Ed.

Houdini seems to provide better evaluations for endgames than Rybka, but I don't know whether this has much impact on Rybka's results and rating. I wonder whether there are types of middlegame positions where one does better than the other; or is it the case at this rarefied level that they are both pretty much the same?

[Eduard Nemeth]

Thanks for the examples, Ed.

Houdini seems to provide better evaluations for endgames than Rybka, but I don't know whether this has much impact on Rybka's results and rating. I wonder whether there are types of middlegame positions where one does better than the other; or is it the case at this rarefied level that they are both pretty much the same?

Here is a position middle game, and Houdini 1.03a found the best move! But I do not know what need Rybka 4 play here? (Please let me see an analysis by Rybka 4)

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "19"]
[White "BS_Test"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Annotator "BS 2830"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "r3k2r/pp1n1ppp/1qpnp3/3bN1PP/3P2Q1/2B1R3/PPP2P2/2KR1B2 w kq - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "0"]

{1.Le1! Karpov-Rogers,1983.} 1-0

r3k2r/pp1n1ppp/1qpnp3/3bN1PP/3P2Q1/2B1R3/PPP2P2/2KR1B2 w kq - 0 1

Best move here is 1.Be1! Karpov-Rogers,1983.

Analysis by Houdini 1.03a w32 2_CPU:

1.Le1 Sxe5 2.dxe5 Sf5 3.Ta3 0-0-0 4.Df4 Lh1 5.Tdd3 Txd3 6.Lxd3 g6 7.Kb1 Kb8 8.Lxf5 gxf5 9.Tb3
+/- (0.89) Tiefe: 12/35 00:00:00 1728kN
1.Le1 0-0-0 2.c4 Sxe5 3.dxe5 Sxc4 4.Lxc4 Lxc4 5.Txd8+ Dxd8 6.Dxc4 Dxg5 7.De2 Td8 8.Df3 f5 9.exf6 gxf6 10.Kb1 e5 11.La5 Td4 12.Lc3
+/- (1.04) Tiefe: 12/43 00:00:01 2524kN
1.Le1 0-0-0 2.c4 Sxe5 3.dxe5 Lxc4 4.Lxc4 Sxc4 5.Txd8+ Dxd8 6.Dxc4 Dxg5 7.De2 Td8 8.Df3 f5 9.exf6 gxf6 10.Dh3 f5 11.Kb1 Td4 12.Df3 f4
+/- (1.01) Tiefe: 13/43 00:00:01 2811kN
1.Le1 0-0-0 2.c4 Sxe5 3.dxe5 Lxc4 4.Lxc4 Sxc4 5.Txd8+ Dxd8 6.Dxc4 Dxg5 7.De2 Td8 8.b3 Td5 9.Kb2 Kb8 10.Df3 De7 11.Dg3 g6 12.Td3 gxh5 13.Dg8+ Kc7
+/- (0.97) Tiefe: 14/43 00:00:01 3283kN
1.Le1 0-0-0 2.c4 Sxe5 3.dxe5 Lxc4 4.Lxc4 Sxc4 5.Txd8+ Dxd8 6.Dxc4 Dxg5 7.De2 Td8 8.b3 Td5 9.Kb2 Kb8 10.Df3 De7 11.Dg3 g6 12.Td3 gxh5 13.Dg8+ Kc7
+/- (1.05) Tiefe: 15/43 00:00:02 4393kN
1.Le1 0-0-0 2.c4 Sxe5 3.dxe5 Lxc4 4.Lxc4 Sxc4 5.Txd8+ Dxd8 6.Dxc4 Dxg5 7.De2 Td8 8.b3 Td5 9.Kb2 Kb8 10.Df3 De7 11.Lc3 b6 12.Td3 Kb7 13.De4
+/- (1.16) Tiefe: 15/43 00:00:02 5369kN
1.Le1 0-0-0 2.c4 Sxe5 3.dxe5 Lxc4 4.Lxc4 Sxc4 5.Txd8+ Dxd8 6.Dxc4 Dxg5 7.De2 Td8 8.b3 Td4 9.Kb2 Df5 10.Df3 Kd7 11.a3 Dxf3 12.Txf3 Ke8 13.Lc3 Te4 14.Td3 Te2+ 15.Td2
+/- (1.12) Tiefe: 16/43 00:00:03 7137kN
1.Le1 0-0-0 2.c4 Sxe5 3.dxe5 Lxc4 4.Lxc4 Sxc4 5.Txd8+ Dxd8 6.Dxc4 Dxg5 7.De2 Td8 8.b3 Td4 9.Kb2 Df5 10.Df3 Kd7 11.a3 Dxf3 12.Txf3 Ke8 13.Lc3 Te4 14.Td3 Te2+ 15.Td2
+/- (1.12) Tiefe: 17/46 00:00:04 11328kN
1.Le1 0-0-0 2.c4 Sxe5 3.dxe5 Lxc4 4.Lxc4 Sxc4 5.Txd8+ Dxd8 6.Dxc4 Dxg5 7.De2 Td8 8.b3 Td4 9.Kb2 Df5 10.Df3 Kd7 11.Kc3 Tf4 12.Dd1+ Kc8 13.Dd6 Db1 14.Df8+ Kc7 15.De7+ Kc8
+/- (1.20) Tiefe: 18/50 00:00:10 25962kN
1.Le1 0-0-0 2.c4 Sxe5 3.dxe5 Sxc4 4.Lxc4 Lxc4 5.Txd8+ Dxd8 6.Dxc4 Dxg5 7.De2 Td8 8.b3 g6 9.hxg6 fxg6 10.Kb2 h5 11.Df3 Df5 12.Dxf5 gxf5 13.Th3 Th8 14.Lb4 b6 15.Le7 Th7 16.Lf6 Td7
+/- (1.22) Tiefe: 18/50 00:00:13 33373kN
1.Le1 0-0-0 2.c4 Sxe5 3.dxe5 Sxc4 4.Lxc4 Lxc4 5.Txd8+ Dxd8 6.Dxc4 Dxg5 7.De2 Td8 8.b3 g6 9.hxg6 fxg6 10.Kb2 h5 11.Df3 Df5 12.Dxf5 gxf5 13.Th3 Th8 14.Lb4 b6 15.Le7 Th7 16.Lf6 Td7
+/- (1.22) Tiefe: 19/50 00:00:19 46921kN
1.Le1 0-0-0 2.c4 Sxe5 3.dxe5 Sxc4 4.Lxc4 Lxc4 5.Txd8+ Dxd8 6.Dxc4 Dxg5 7.De2 Td8 8.Df3 g6 9.Dxf7 Dg4 10.b4 gxh5 11.Dxh7 h4 12.Kb2 Td1 13.Lc3 Td7 14.Dh8+ Kc7 15.a3 a6 16.Df6 b6
+/- (1.30) Tiefe: 20/61 00:00:39 98620kN
1.Le1 0-0-0 2.c4 Sxe5 3.dxe5 Sxc4 4.Lxc4 Lxc4 5.Txd8+ Dxd8 6.Dxc4 Dxg5 7.Dd4 Kb8 8.f4 Df5 9.Td3 Tc8 10.Ld2 Dxh5 11.Dd6+ Tc7 12.b3 b6 13.Df8+ Kb7 14.Dxg7 Dg6 15.Dxg6 hxg6 16.Kc2 c5
+- (1.45) Tiefe: 20/61 00:00:59 147mN
1.Le1 0-0-0 2.c4 Sxe5 3.dxe5 Sxc4 4.Lxc4 Lxc4 5.Txd8+ Dxd8 6.Dxc4 Dxg5 7.Dd4 Kb8 8.f4 Df5 9.Td3 Tc8 10.Ld2 Dxh5 11.Dd6+ Tc7 12.b3 b6 13.Df8+ Kb7 14.Dxg7 Dh1+ 15.Kb2 De4 16.Td8 c5
+- (1.56) Tiefe: 21/66 00:01:58 296mN

ED.