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The Lyudmil Tsvetkov positions

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The Lyudmil Tsvetkov positions

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:19 am
by User923005

Code: Select all

8/6kb/p3n1p1/Pp1nPp2/1PpPp2p/2P4P/3B2P1/2R1R1K1 b - - acd 43; bm g5; ce 0; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0001; pm g5; pv g5 Rf1 f4 Be1 e3 Kh2 Bd3 Rh1 Kg6 Ra1 Kf5 Rg1 Bc2 Rc1 Bd3 Rd1 Be2 Ra1 Bd3 Rh1 Ke4 Rc1 Kf5 Kg1 Ke4 Kh2 Kf5 Kg1 Ke4 Kh2; 
5r1k/6p1/2nq3r/4pPNP/p1p1P1Q1/1bP5/1P2B1R1/6RK b - -  acd 31; bm Nd8; ce -577; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0002; pm Nd8; pv Nd8 Nf3 Rh7 Qg3 Nf7 Nh4 Kg8 Qg6 Kh8 Qe6 Qxe6 fxe6 Nd6 Ng6+ Kg8 Nxf8 Kxf8 e7+ Kf7 Rg5 Bc2 Rxe5 Ke8 Kh2 Nf7 Re6 Rh6 Rgg6 Rxg6 hxg6 Ng5 Re5 a3 bxa3 Nxe4 Bf3 Nxc3 Bc6+; 
3rrnk1/1bqnbpp1/pp1p3p/4pP2/P3P3/1NN1QBP1/1PP2B1P/R2R2K1 b - -  acd 33; bm Nh7; ce 0; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0003; pm Nh7; pv Nh7 Nd2 Rc8 h4 Nhf6 g4 Nc5 Bg3 Ncd7 Nb3 Nc5 Nd2 Ncd7 Nb3 Nc5 Nd2; 
2r1r3/1p1b1p2/3q1k2/1p1p1p2/pP1N1Pp1/P1PBP1Pp/1K1BNP1P/8 b - - acd 44; bm Kg6; ce 1147; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0004; pm Kg6; pv Kg6 Nc1 f6 Bf1 Re7 Nd3 b6 Nc1 Ra8 Bd3 Qb8 Nce2 Qe8 Nc1 Qc8 Nce2 Qe8 Nc1 Qc8 Nce2 Qe8; 
rnbqkbnr/pp3ppp/2p1p3/3p4/3PP3/2N5/PPP2PPP/R1BQKBNR w - -  acd 30; bm Nf3; ce 44; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0005; pm Nf3; pv Nf3 Bb4 exd5 exd5 Bd3 Nf6 Ke2 Qe7+ Kf1 Kf8 Bf4 Nbd7 Qe1 Nb6 a3 Qxe1+ Rxe1 Bxc3 bxc3 Be6 Bd6+ Kg8; 
8/3nk3/5n2/1P6/2Pb4/1Q6/6K1/8 w - - acd 38; bm Qg3; ce 371; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0006; pm Qg3; pv Qg3 Ke6 Qh3+ Ke7 Kf1 Bc5 Qf5 Bb6 Ke2 Nf8 Qf4 Ne6 Qh4 Nc5 Qd4 Nfd7 Qd5 Ne6 Kd2 Ndc5 Qh1 Nd7 Qe4 Kd6 Qd5+ Ke7 Kc3 Bd4+ Kc2 Bb6 Qe4 Bc5 Qb7 Bd4 Qd5 Bb6 Qe4 Bc5 Qb7 Bd4 Qd5; 
6k1/3r1p2/3P2p1/2Q2bP1/5P2/6K1/8/8 w - - acd 42; bm Qb6; ce 707; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0007; pm Qb6; pv Qb6 Kf8 Kf2 Kg7 Ke3 Kh7 Kd4 Be6 Ke5 Kg7 Ke4 Kg8 Qb8+ Kg7 Qb2+ Kh7 Qb6 Kg8 Qb8+ Kg7 Qb2+ Kh7 Qb6 Kg8; 
3r1rk1/4q1p1/3p1p1p/2pRn2P/1pP5/1P2N3/4QPP1/1B4K1 w - - acd 37; bm Nf5; ce 0; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0008; pm Nf5; pv Nf5 Qc7 f4 Nc6 Qg4 Kh8 Be4 Rfe8 Bd3 Rf8 Be4 Rfe8 Bd3 Rf8 Be4; 
8/2p1b2p/p1k5/8/PpN5/1P1K2P1/7P/8 w - - acd 38; bm Ke4; ce 229; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0009; pm Ke4; pv Ke4 Bf6 Ne3 Bc3 Nd5 Be1 Nf6 h6 Ng4 h5 Nf6 h4 g4 Kd6 Kf5 c5 Ne4+ Kc6 g5 c4 bxc4 Bc3 g6 Bh8 Nd2 Kc5 Ke4 Bg7 Kd3 Kd6 Nb3 Ke5 h3 Kf5 c5 Kxg6 c6 Be5 Kc4 Bd6 Nc5 a5 Ne6 Kf5 c7 Bxc7 Nxc7 Kf4 Ne6+ Kg3 Ng5 Kf4 Ne6+ Kg3 Ng5 Kf4 Ne6+; 
1r2r3/5pk1/1p2p1p1/p3p1Pp/P1p1N3/2N3P1/2K2B2/8 b - - acd 32; bm Red8; ce 480; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0010; pm Red8; pv Red8; 
6k1/1p1rnpp1/r1n1p2p/PR1pP3/B1pP2PN/2Pb1P2/3B3P/4R1K1 w - - acd 35; bm Ng2; ce -125; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0011; pm Ng2; pv Ng2 Rc7 Rc5 Rc8 Nf4 Rxa5 Rxa5 Nxa5 Bd7 Rd8 Bb5; 
r3r1k1/p3q1bp/1p1n2p1/2p2p2/3pp3/1P5N/PB4PP/RB1QNRK1 b - -  acd 31; bm Nb5; ce -68; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0012; pm Nb5; pv Nb5 Qe2 Nc3 Bxc3 dxc3 Qc4+ Kh8 Kh1 Rad8 Bc2 Rd4 Qa6 Rd2 Rc1 Bh6 a3 Red8 a4 Be3 Ra1 Bd4 a5 Rb8 Nf4 Qb7 Qb5 a6 Qxb6 Qxb6 axb6 Rxb6 Nd5; 
r3r2k/p2q2pp/np1B2p1/3pP3/P2P4/1QP5/6PP/R4RK1 b - -  acd 37; bm Nc7; ce -319; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0013; pm Nc7; pv Nc7 a5 Rab8 Rf3 Rbc8 axb6 axb6; 
rn1q1rk1/pb1nbppp/1pp1p3/3pP3/3P1B2/2NB1N2/PPP1QPPP/R4RK1 w - -  acd 32; bm Qe3; ce 28; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0014; pm Qe3; pv Qe3 Ba6 Bxa6 Nxa6 Rad1 Rc8 Qd3 Ndb8 a3 Nc7 Ne2 c5 dxc5 bxc5 c4 Nd7 b3 Rb8 Bg3 a5 cxd5 exd5 Nf4 d4 Rfe1 Ne6 Nd5 Nb6 Nxb6 Rxb6 h4 a4; 
2r5/8/1n6/1P1p1pkp/p2P4/R1P1PKP1/8/1R6 w - - - -  acd 45; bm Rba1; ce 339; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0015; pm Rba1; pv Rba1 Rb8 Re1 Rb7 Ra2 Rc7 Rh1 Rb7 Rb1 Re7 Rb4 Rb7 Ra3 Ra7 Rb1 Ra5 Raa1 Ra8 Re1 Nc4 Ra2 a3; 
rnbqkbnr/ppp4p/4p1p1/3pPp1Q/3P4/8/PPP2PPP/RNB1KBNR w - - acd 29; bm Qd1; ce 8; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0016; pm Qd1; pv Qd1 c5 c3 Qa5 Nd2 cxd4 Nb3 Qb6 Nxd4 Nc6 Ngf3 h6 Bd3 Nxd4 Nxd4 Bc5 g4 Ne7 gxf5 gxf5 Qh5+ Kd8 Qh4 Rg8 Be2; 
r3r1k1/5pb1/pq2p1p1/1p1bP1P1/2pNpP1Q/P1P1P3/1P6/R1B2RK1 b - - acd 37; bm Rad8; ce -60; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0017; pm Rad8; pv Rad8 Kf2 Qa5 Rh1 Kf8 Qh7 Qa4 Bd2 Bb7 Kg3 Qa5 Rh2 Rd7 Kf2 Rdd8 Rah1 Qa4 Rg1 Qa5 Re1 Re7 Rd1 Ree8 Ra1 Re7 Rah1 Ree8 Ke2 Qa4 Re1 Rd7 Kf2 Rdd8 Rh3; 
2b3rk/1p2q2p/1N1p1p2/1QpPn1p1/1PP1Pp2/7P/4BPP1/R5K1 b - - acd 26; bm Bxh3; ce 188; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0018; pm Bxh3; pv Bxh3 bxc5 f3 Bf1 fxg2 Be2 Ng6 Qb2 dxc5 Rd1 Nf4 d6 Qe5 Rd2 Qxb2 Rxb2 Rd8 Bf3 Rxd6 Nd5 b6 Rb3 Kg7 Nxf4 gxf4 Be2 Be6 Kxg2 h5 Rb1 Kg6 Rb2 h4 f3 Kg5 Kh2 h3 Bf1 Kh4 Be2 Bf7 Bf1 Bh5 Rf2; 
1r1r4/3q2k1/3p1p2/p1pNpPp1/PpP1B1Pp/1P5P/2Q5/6K1 b - - acd 54; bm Qf7; ce 553; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0019; pm Qf7; pv Qf7 Kg2 Kh7 Qd2 Rd7 Ne3 Rbd8 Bd5 Qg7 Be6 Ra7 Nd5 Re8 Qe3 Rb7 Qe2 Rbb8 Qe4 Red8 Qc2 Rf8 Qe2 Rfe8 Qe4 Red8 Qc2 Rf8 Qe2 Rfe8; 
r4rk1/2nqbppp/1nb1p3/p2pP3/PppP1B2/1P3N1P/2PQBPP1/R2NR1K1 b - - acd 34; bm Bb7; ce -12; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0020; pm Bb7; pv Bb7 Ne3 Rfc8 Ng4 Ba6 h4 Qd8 h5 h6 Rac1 Kh8 Bg3 Kg8 Qe3 Kh8 Qf4 Kg8 Qd2 Qf8 Bf4 Kh8 Bh2 Kg8 Qe3 Qd8 Qd2 Ne8 Qe3; 
1r3rk1/3q1ppp/3p4/p1pNpP2/PpP1P1P1/1P3Q2/6KP/5R2 w - - acd 44; bm f6; ce 121; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0021; pm f6; pv f6 Rfe8 fxg7 Re6 Qf5 Qb7; 
8/1pn2pkp/p1p1n1p1/8/2P5/3BBP2/PP3PKP/8 w - - acd 43; bm f4; ce 0; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0022; pm f4; pv f4 Kf6 Kf3 Ne8 b4 Nd6 a3 Nf5 Bd2 Nfd4+ Ke3 Nf5+ Kf3 Nfd4+ Ke3 Nf5+ Kf3; 
r1bqk2r/1pp2ppp/p1pb1n2/4p3/4P3/3P1N1P/PPPN1PP1/R1BQK2R b - - acd 32; bm Be6; ce -28; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0023; pm Be6; pv Be6 Ng5 Qe7 Ke2 h6 Nxe6; 
1r6/2p1b2p/p1k5/8/PpN5/1P1K2P1/7P/R7 w - - acd 38; bm Re1; ce 112; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0024; pm Re1; pv Re1 Rd8+ Kc2 Bd6 Re6 Kc5 Rh6 Rd7 Rh5+ Kc6 Rh4 Re7 Rh6 Kd5 Kd3 Kc6 Rh4 Kc5 Rh6 Rg7 Nd2 Kd5 Rh5+ Kc6 Ne4 Be7 Kc4 Rg4 Kd4 Rg7 Rh6+ Bd6 Kc4; 
r2q1rk1/1b1nbppp/4p3/3pP3/p1pP4/PpP2N1P/1P3PP1/R1BQRNK1 b - - acd 42; bm Re8; ce 0; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0025; pm Re8; pv Re8 Ng3 Nf8 Nh2 Ng6 Qg4 Bc6 Nh5 Kh8 Nf3 h6 Nf4 Nxf4 Bxf4 Rg8 Qh5 Be8 Qg4 Bc6 Qh5 Be8 Qg4 Bc6; 
r4rk1/1pp1q1pp/p2p4/3Pn3/1PP1Pp2/P7/3QB1PP/2R2RK1 b - - acd 33; bm g5; ce 64; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0026; pm g5; pv g5 h4 f3 gxf3 Rf4 c5 Raf8 cxd6 cxd6; 
r2q1rk1/1ppbbpp1/2n2n1p/p3pP2/3pP3/3P3N/PPP1B1PP/RNBQ1RK1 w - - acd 35; bm a4; ce 8; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0027; pm a4; pv a4 b6 Rf3 Bc8 Na3 Ba6 Nf2 Nb8 Rh3 Re8 Bd2 Nbd7 Qc1 Bf8 Rg3 Kh8 Bf3 c6 b3 b5 Qe1 b4 Nc4 Nc5 Rc1 Bxc4 dxc4 Bd6 Nd3 Qe7 Ra1 Qc7 Qe2 Rad8 Rb1 Qb7 Ra1 Qc7 Rb1 Qb7 Ra1 Qc7; 
6rk/1p1bq2r/p1p5/P1PnPppp/3Pp3/1B2P2Q/1P1B1R1P/6RK w - - acd 38; bm Qf1; ce 0; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0028; pm Qf1; pv Qf1 g4 Bxd5 cxd5 c6 Bxc6 Rxf5 h4 Rf6 g3 Bb4 Qxb4 Rxc6 g2+ Rxg2 bxc6 Qf6+ Rhg7 Qxh4+ Rh7 Qf6+ Rhg7 Qh4+; 
1r3b1k/1rn3pp/b2p1p2/q1pPp3/ppP1P2P/5P1Q/PP1B1RP1/K2N1B1R b - - acd 34; bm Na8; ce -84; id Lyudmil-Tsvetkov.0029; pm Na8; pv Na8 Ne3 Qd8 g3 Rf7 Bd3 Bc8 Qg2 Nb6 Kb1 Kg8 f4 Qe8 h5 Qe7 Re1 Qe8 Ref1 Ra8 Rh1 Ba6 Qf1 Rb8 h6 g6;

Re: The Lyudmil Tsvetkov positions

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:51 am
by Jeremy Bernstein
What was the conclusion with the Eigenmann 12 Monkeys?

Re: The Lyudmil Tsvetkov positions

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:48 pm
by User923005
Those (unsolved) positions are still open. There may eventually be a conclusion, but I have to wait to do more runs. Currently I am running an experiment I call "Novelties". For my database of high quality filtered games, I have 283,195 opening positions which have been played 30 times or more. For most of these positions, my computer analysis matches calculated best move with most frequently played move. There are 74,482 positions where the computer analysis disagrees with the computer analysis for the best move to play but the computer chosen move is among the list of alternatives chosen from the database. But I also have 3,817 positions where the computer suggested move has never been played (at least not in my database of high quality games). Of these, for about 1/2 of them, the computer score is better than the calculated ce for the actual game theoretic outcome (IOW, the computer move is probably better than the best of the moves actually played). For the remaining 1,583 positions despite deep analysis, the computer has not calculated any of the moves actually played, and the computed score from actual games outcomes is a higher score than the computer calculated score. So I am analyzing these positions at deeper and deeper intervals. I have two machines that I use for this. One machine runs 24x7x365 and the other is at about 70%. I have a third 70% machine which I normally use for other experiments like 12 monkeys and Lyudmil, etc. However, that machine is currently doing a slow speed analysis test to compare the computing ability of 100 special opening positions at one hour each position between a slightly customized Stockfish variant and the latest Houdini to see which is better for opening analysis at one hour per position using 4 CPUs with 4G RAM at 3.2 GHz. The stockfish instance has already analyzed the 100 positions, and Houdini is currently at position 72. When that analysis completes, I will restart the Lyudmil experiment, interlaced with another one that I have running to come to a more definite answer. Currently, I suspect that for the remaining open positions, some will fall the way of the suggested moves and some will actually locate alternate, better moves. One way to help the computers is to get the actual game or analysis and let the computer analyze all of the positions, backwards from the termination. By doing this, we seed the hashtable with the suggested answer, starting with the superior position that is hoped to be obtained.

At any rate, the simple answer to your question is "No conclusion yet". When I come to a clear conclusion (if a clear conclusion is ever found, that is) I will publish the results here.

Re: The Lyudmil Tsvetkov positions

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:41 pm
by Jeremy Bernstein
Fair enough. I started a run on my comparably modestly used machine with HIARCS 14 and Komodo 5, 30 minutes per position.
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