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How Much Advantage?
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:32 am
by kingliveson
2rq1rk1/p3bpp1/7p/1b6/4Q3/5N2/PPPP1PPP/R1B1K2R w KQ - 1 17
Is this position lost?
Re: How Much Advantage?
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:49 pm
by hyatt
How did black get here? I've seen white sac that many pawns in something like the Goring gambit or something, but black?
I am not sure black is winning, but after looking at it a bit about the only move I see is Kd1. Can't play d3 to cut the bishop off so I can castle, as the queen check or the rook taking on c2 is a problem. Can't play c3 as Qd2 seems to be problematic. I let Crafty run for 30 minutes on an 8 core box and had a score near zero... Hard to say how this ends. Black's lead in development is significant, if it can be used and if queens stick around.
Re: How Much Advantage?
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:16 pm
by TPJR
I am almost sure It is winning for black.
Kd1 Te8 Te1 (only move) Db6 and White looses AT LEAST pawn f2 without solving its problems.
For example: Dd4 Lc5 Dg4 h5 Df5 Lxf2 Te5 Lg3 Txe8 Txe8 c3 g6 Dd5 le2+ -+
or: Se5 Dxf2 a4 Lf6 Df3 Dxe1 -+
By the way, much better than to just run an engine and wait, is to play the variations and see what happens (with engine support of course). It took me 10 minutes to find that White is almost chanceless. I dont understand people that just start an engine and wait, when they "analyze" positions.
Re: How Much Advantage?
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:12 pm
by kingliveson
hyatt wrote:How did black get here? I've seen white sac that many pawns in something like the Goring gambit or something, but black?
I am not sure black is winning, but after looking at it a bit about the only move I see is Kd1. Can't play d3 to cut the bishop off so I can castle, as the queen check or the rook taking on c2 is a problem. Can't play c3 as Qd2 seems to be problematic. I let Crafty run for 30 minutes on an 8 core box and had a score near zero... Hard to say how this ends. Black's lead in development is significant, if it can be used and if queens stick around.
The game came about while doing some evaluation tuning. Unfortunately it was played in Arena GUI which didnt have auto save enabled.
Re: How Much Advantage?
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:48 am
by zullil
kingliveson wrote:2rq1rk1/p3bpp1/7p/1b6/4Q3/5N2/PPPP1PPP/R1B1K2R w KQ - 1 17
Is this position lost?
Critter-1.2.1 (8 threads, 2GB hash) says White is behind, but not yet lost:
Code: Select all
28/69 318:41 219336321160 11470408 -0.65 Kd1 Re8 Re1 Qb6 Re3 Bc5 Qg4 Bxe3 fxe3 Rc6 Qh4 Qc5 c3 Rg6 Qf2 Qf5 Ke1 Qg4 Qg3 Qc4 Qf2 Rf6 a4 Ba6 d4 Qd3
Re: How Much Advantage?
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:52 am
by Uly
zullil wrote:Critter-1.2.1
Is that version public?
Re: How Much Advantage?
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:48 am
by tano-urayoan
Uly wrote:
Is that version public?
Yep the machintosh compile.
Re: How Much Advantage?
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:56 am
by veritas
tano-urayoan wrote:Uly wrote:
Is that version public?
Yep the machintosh compile.
where from please
Re: How Much Advantage?
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:20 am
by Uly
Thanks Tano.
Re: How Much Advantage?
Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:23 pm
by Ted Summers
kingliveson wrote:hyatt wrote:How did black get here? I've seen white sac that many pawns in something like the Goring gambit or something, but black?
I am not sure black is winning, but after looking at it a bit about the only move I see is Kd1. Can't play d3 to cut the bishop off so I can castle, as the queen check or the rook taking on c2 is a problem. Can't play c3 as Qd2 seems to be problematic. I let Crafty run for 30 minutes on an 8 core box and had a score near zero... Hard to say how this ends. Black's lead in development is significant, if it can be used and if queens stick around.
The game came about while doing some evaluation tuning. Unfortunately it was played in Arena GUI which didnt have auto save enabled.
This is what I found in a database lookup. Fried Liver anyone?
[Event "Kuala Lumpur MCF"]
[Site "Kuala Lumpur"]
[Date "2008.08.29"]
[Round "4"]
[White "Mas, Hafizulhelmi"]
[Black "Iuldachev, Saidali"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C58"]
[WhiteElo "2386"]
[BlackElo "2520"]
[PlyCount "58"]
[EventDate "2008.08.26"]
[EventType "tourn"]
[EventRounds "10"]
[EventCountry "MAS"]
[EventCategory "9"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2008.11.05"]
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 d5 5. exd5 Na5 6. Bb5+ c6 7. dxc6 bxc6 8.
Qf3 Be7 9. Bxc6+ Nxc6 10. Qxc6+ Bd7 11. Qc4 O-O 12. Nc3 Rc8 13. Qe2 h6 14. Nf3
e4 15. Nxe4 Nxe4 16. Qxe4 Bb5 17. a4 Re8 18. axb5 Bd6 19. Qxe8+ Qxe8+ 20. Kd1
Qxb5 21. Ne1 Re8 22. d3 Qh5+ 23. f3 Qe5 24. Bd2 Qxb2 25. Rc1 Ba3 26. c3 Qb3+
27. Rc2 Qb1+ 28. Bc1 Bxc1 29. Rxc1 Rxe1+ 0-1