Page 1 of 4

PlayChess Machine Room Exclusion Policy

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:52 pm
by Jeremy Bernstein
These are the PlayChess Machine Room rules:
Compulsory rules:

1. Chatting on a chess server has the same legal status as any verbal or written communication between individuals. Insults have legal consequences, in particular, severe insults and incitement may result in criminal prosecution. Every player can be unambiguously identified through his IP address which is stored by the server. Apart from legal consequences, insults of any kind will be punished by complete bans without further notice, the duration of which is subject to the severe ness of the offence.

2. Here, like everywhere else, it is forbidden to trade commercial programs or engines or to use traded or bootlegged software or engines. Contraventions will be punished, at least by a complete permanent banning of all access accounts and other legal action may be taken against the offender as deemed appropriate. Excluded are, of course, freeware or shareware programs as well as the Nalimov Tablebases which are not subject to any copyright.

3. Boosting an Elo rating by losing intentionally (padding) is forbidden, regardless whether the loss occurs against your own access accounts, friends or relatives. As soon as such boosting is noticed by a ChessBase employee, all accounts of the involved players will be immediately banned. If in doubt, please play friendly games which are not Elo rated.

4. Manipulating your own system (e.g. lag) is unfair and leads to banning. Please schedule lengthy uploads or downloads to a time other than when you are playing.
So, Harvey Williamson, why don't you allow participation of Ippolit, Robbolito, Houdini engines in the PlayChess Machine Room?
Harvey Williamson wrote:Engines with unknown authors have never been allowed so that deals with most of them. As for he rest of your question here is not the place to discuss it.
Here's a new place, custom-created to discuss this issue. So, let's discuss. You are certainly aware that Houdini has an author, which would rule it out of the ad hoc rule expressed above (I use the term ad hoc, since it's not a rule published in the official rules, therefore one might assume that it's your rule -- feel free to discuss that, too).

Jeremy

Re: PlayChess Machine Room Exclusion Policy

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:15 pm
by Ted Summers
I post this here because it seems very related to this topic. Please feel free to remove it if you disagree.
AdminX wrote:
Albert Silver wrote:
AdminX wrote:
bhandelman wrote:Why do you mention Chessbase in your subject line? I don't see them mentioned in your post from the other forum.
I think it is because Harvey Williamson is a Chessbase /Playchess Sysop. Since Harvey has no "online chess platform".
I don't get the monopoly part either. CB controls their online server Playchess, big deal. So a monopoly of what? Their own product?
Unfortunately for Harvey, they don't see Chessbase, they see Harvey speaking for Chessbase and enforcing policy that is not clear as to how clones are defined. After all, the its a Clone because Playchess says its a Clone does not work for allot of their members. As in the quote of Harvey's posted above, does Vas, Fabian, or Bob define what is or is not a clone. Is there a board that decides it, or a public list posted somewhere on a Chessbase website. Even here on CCC there is no agreement. I don't agree with their (Chessbase) engine room policy, so I just choose to watch /play engine games on FICS, too many Rybka vs Rybka games on Playchess for me.

I guess the same can be said of you. They don't see Albert Silver independent writer, they see Albert Silver writer for Chessbase. No insult intended.
http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37807

Re: PlayChess Machine Room Exclusion Policy

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:32 pm
by Jeremy Bernstein
Ted Summers wrote:I post this here because it seems very related to this topic. Please feel free to remove it if you disagree.
I do agree. Obviously there is a disconnect with the rules spelled out by ChessBase v. the rules enforced by Harvey. As far as users are concerned, Harvey is ChessBase (in any case, he represents CB in the Machine Room, whether he does this for money (which he doesn't, he says) or voluntarily). So, where do CB's rules stop and Harvey's begin? Does CB implicitly support all rules appended to their own? Contractually, are those additional rules even enforceable, since they aren't published? I have a lot of questions. I hope that Harvey will join in, though, and clarify some of this for us.

Jeremy

Re: PlayChess Machine Room Exclusion Policy

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:05 pm
by Jeremy Bernstein
By the way, after reading that thread, I see that some people took my satire for an actual quote. That was not my intention, Harvey didn't say that, and I apologize for any confusion caused. Nevertheless, I do believe, that is, it is my opinion, that the non-quote reasonably characterizes Harvey's views on the matter, based on actual quotes of his I have read. I am looking forward to further discussion with him, in any case.

Re: PlayChess Machine Room Exclusion Policy

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:42 pm
by Marc Greenhaw
Jeremy you bring up a very good point. Your post brings up a very good discussion that I have wondered why it has not been brought up before. I believe that no one from chessbase engine room never spoke about this matter before because of fear of retaliation from the sysop from there. In the forums Harvey tries to come across as a nice guy and that the engine room is a nice and friendly environment to play at. Let me tell you this is far from the truth. I am in that engine room every day and I see a lot of foul play from the sysop including Holger Leiske. Just google Holger Leiske's name and you will find complaints of him dating back 4 years. What I am saying is chessbase sysops have a long history of abusing good honest customers with no consequences following their bad behavior. Complaining to the higher ups from chessbase is like talking to a wall. Maybe this discussion in the open will lead to some long awaited answers from the chessbase sysops themselves.

Marc Greenhaw

Re: PlayChess Machine Room Exclusion Policy

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:43 pm
by Kevin Frayer
Where has Harvey gone.

Answering such direct questions should be easy for a correspondences IM. Perhaps he thinks he has 3 days to respond.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Uvt83YWWWY

Re: PlayChess Machine Room Exclusion Policy

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:37 pm
by BB+
that the non-quote reasonably characterizes Harvey's views on the matter,
Ah yes, this famous standard... I thought your intent for satire was clear, but the Internet (especially after a few copy/pastes) is never so simple. For instance, Cozzie's statement about "Fritz 5" similarities with Strelka is certainly not to be taken literally (in a later post he called the former the ultimate bean-counter , and compared Strelka's speed to it), though it can quite act as a diversion when discussing other engine origins.

Re: PlayChess Machine Room Exclusion Policy

Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:08 pm
by Jeremy Bernstein
It looks like Harvey doesn't feel like talking about these issues. Maybe he'll turn up yet.

Re: PlayChess Machine Room Exclusion Policy

Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:36 pm
by Kevin Frayer
Jeremy Bernstein wrote:It looks like Harvey doesn't feel like talking about these issues. Maybe he'll turn up yet.
I'm sure Harvey feels the right place to have this discussion is over at the Hiarc forum where he has complete editorial control. lol

Re: PlayChess Machine Room Exclusion Policy

Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:42 pm
by Jeremy Bernstein
Kevin Frayer wrote:
Jeremy Bernstein wrote:It looks like Harvey doesn't feel like talking about these issues. Maybe he'll turn up yet.
I'm sure Harvey feels the right place to have this discussion is over at the Hiarc forum where he has complete editorial control. lol
I checked over there, as well. He's been posting, of course, but not about this. Quel surprise.