What do you folks make of this ?

[syzygy]

Floating point calculations are STILL lazy. But they work. But that has nothing to do with Fruit / Rybka. Fruit uses the ugly float-everywhere approach where he uses doubles everywhere, including the functions like my_timer_elapsed_cpu() and such. Ugly is not the word.

The point was not Fruit at all. The point was your glaring unwillingness to admit such an obvious point as - for example - the naturality of using floating points in intermediate time allocation calculations. Ever heard of "impeaching the witness"? (Hint: your words.)

On TalkChess we've already gone through a ton of examples. Do you really want to repeat that exercise? I don't think so.

[marcelk]

I know of no other program, excepting Fruit and derivatives, that uses floats.

GnuChess 5.07 is an obvious example.

Code: Select all

extern float SearchTime;
extern float TimeLimit[2];
extern int TCinc;
extern float TCTime;

However, it seems that version 2 and version 4 were int-based, so maybe floats are a post-Stanback addition.

GnuChess5 is not the only one and Hyatt should be aware of that because it has been pointed out to him less than a month ago. Either he is dishonest here, or he considers Gaviota, Sjeng, Stockfish and even the 1997 version of Rookie all as "Fruit derivatives". If he upholds the latter I don't know how to respond, but it won't be mild.

OOhhh... I am simply shaking in my boots...

Are you saying ALL the above programs use a floating point target time? If so, it IS nonsensical. If you are saying they use integer values, with a floating point calculation used to set the integer value, so what? I've been clear as to what _I_ am talking about.

I'm saying neither, as you can read in the full text you quoted. The distinction between "using float as the storage type of the target time variable" and "using floats in time allocation calculations" hasn't been on my radar, and it is not clear to me that you mean one but not the other when writing about "using floats". To me, both fall under "using floats". So I am saying these programs all use floats in time allocation.

More importantly, I'm also saying that any program using floating point in time allocation means just that: it "uses floats" and not "it is Fruit or a Fruit derivative".

But ok, in your later posts make you it evident that with "use floats in time allocation" you essentially mean "use floats in the ugly Fruit-way and not in the beautiful Crafty-way". Fair enough, we can work from there, bar insinuations of Fruit copying in said programs which cannot continue.

You seem to think that just using a single floating point operation makes the time control code floating point. Try again...

You are not only infallible but also a keen mindreader. I admit I followed your advice and gave it a good try, but I must give up: How can code which uses a floating point operation not be floating point code?

[marcelk]

GnuChess5 is not the only one and Hyatt should be aware of that because it has been pointed out to him less than a month ago. Either he is dishonest here, or he considers Gaviota, Sjeng, Stockfish and even the 1997 version of Rookie all as "Fruit derivatives". If he upholds the latter I don't know how to respond, but it won't be mild.

Clearly there can be only one conclusion: Gaviota, Sjeng, Stockfish and Fruit are all clones of 1997 Rookie.

Well, I -did- help out Reggie a lot with programming advice when he started Faile. He might have gotten some unnatural ideas about floating point values representing physical measures such as time from me. And Sjeng -did- start out as a clone of Faile... What have I done?

[hyatt]

Floating point calculations are STILL lazy. But they work. But that has nothing to do with Fruit / Rybka. Fruit uses the ugly float-everywhere approach where he uses doubles everywhere, including the functions like my_timer_elapsed_cpu() and such. Ugly is not the word.

The point was not Fruit at all. The point was your glaring unwillingness to admit such an obvious point as - for example - the naturality of using floating points in intermediate time allocation calculations. Ever heard of "impeaching the witness"? (Hint: your words.)

On TalkChess we've already gone through a ton of examples. Do you really want to repeat that exercise? I don't think so.

Again, using floating point is NOT "Natural". It is counter to well-established programming language guidelines dealing with mixing integer and floating point math. It is not even POSSIBLE in some programming languages. So get off of that bandwagon. Anyone can use any poor programming practice(s) they want. That does NOT make them "natural practices" however... Not now, not ever...

Keep working on that "impeachment." You aren't getting very far so far...

[syzygy]

Again, using floating point is NOT "Natural". It is counter to well-established programming language guidelines dealing with mixing integer and floating point math. It is not even POSSIBLE in some programming languages. So get off of that bandwagon. Anyone can use any poor programming practice(s) they want. That does NOT make them "natural practices" however... Not now, not ever...

Thank you for illustrating my point!!!

[hyatt]

Again, using floating point is NOT "Natural". It is counter to well-established programming language guidelines dealing with mixing integer and floating point math. It is not even POSSIBLE in some programming languages. So get off of that bandwagon. Anyone can use any poor programming practice(s) they want. That does NOT make them "natural practices" however... Not now, not ever...

Thank you for illustrating my point!!!

Thank you for making mine...