Author of NGplay_61 should give credit to tscp

[User923005]

p.s.
Read any good "books" lately?

[Rebel]

I would like to mention further that I did not say, "The author of NGplay_61 should be hung from a tree and beaten!" nor did I say, "The author of NGplay_61 should be forever banned from chess tournaments and shamed with international news postings!"

I simply said that he should give Tom Kerrigan credit.

Nothing more, nothing less.

[Alexander Schmidt]

I would like to mention further that I did not say, "The author of NGplay_61 should be hung from a tree and beaten!" nor did I say, "The author of NGplay_61 should be forever banned from chess tournaments and shamed with international news postings!"

I simply said that he should give Tom Kerrigan credit.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Indeed it looks like the engine started as TSCP, I agree with you.

[User923005]

Note that I do not consider NGplay_61 to be a clone. Let me explain:

Suppose that a mad scientist should sneak into the bedroom of User923005 at night and steal a snippet of hair in order to capture the DNA. Our mad scientist, knowing that User923005 was born in Idaho, figures that he would be a good candidate to clone in order to win rodeo contests. So he inserts the captured DNA into an unfertilized egg cell and grows a new person, whom he names Leinnad. Leinnad does have some nice attributes for rodeo, as far as balance and high pain threshhold but lacks a high enough concentration of fast-twitch muscle fiber, so to bolster the bursts of strength needed to stay on a bucking bronco or bull, he gives the poor, hapless Leinnad high doses of anabolic steroids. He also dies his hair yellow and puts a real nice cowboy outfit on him, complete with Stetson hat, Felson plaid shirt, moss agate and silver neckerchief, and a beautiful silver and turquoise belt buckle.

Still a clone.

But sadly for all involved, Leinnad still does not shine in the rodeo, placing 3rd as his best outing. So our mad scientist goes berserk and starts adding mechanical contraptions of his own devising such as a peristaltic pump used to push 300 gallons of blood per minute though poor Leinnad's veins. And he cobbles the best pieces of some of his other attempted clones so that the only part of User923005 that is left is the left pinky. Now, we can clearly identify that Leinnad unmistakeably came from User923005 by fingerprinting that pinky.

But the new version of Leinnad, who wins three rodeos before he dies, is no longer a clone.

[syzygy]

Here there is more...
TSCP
#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <string.h>
#include <signal.h>
NGPlay
#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <string.h>
#include <signal.h>

Very perceptive of you to note the use of signal, which is rather rare among Windows chess engines.

I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous.

My engine has this code:

#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <unistd.h>
#include <string.h>
#include <signal.h>

and in another file it has this:

#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <sys/time.h>
#include <signal.h>
#include <string.h>

I suppose this means I have cleverly removed any traces of TSCP????

You can probably find MANY programs that "started their life as TSCP" (based on evidence like this), but have nothing to do with chess or any other game.

[User923005]

I suggest the following:
1. Read and examine the entire contents of the full post.
2. Read and examine TSCP and NGPlay_61 yourself.

If those things are not enough to convince you then you are not as smart as I thought you were.

Windows programs are not supposed to use signal for the Winboard interface. It is only Unix programs that need that. You will find very few windows programs attempting to subvert the ctrl-C signal. If you examine the actual code I posted it should be enough to explain things for you. If not, then I suspect you are not smart enough to figure it out and it will be a waste of my time to try to explain it. There are dozens of other tidbits in the program. Did you notice my hint to examine the book code? Anyway, I guess you will figure it out eventually. It takes 16 points of a fingerprint to prove that the perpetrator made it. I would not have opened my mouth if I did not find 16 points of identification that proved to me it was originally TSCP.

There is not some question in my mind about whether or not NGplay_61 came from TSCP. It did. If you are unable to recognize that, it is a defect on your part.

I do not think that the author of NGPlay_61 is a wrongdoer. I think he simply overlooked the need to mention the origins of his program. This is a common problem that has afflicted several dozen chess engines. Most of the time, when discovered, the author will rectify it. I sent him an email yesterday to bring the issue to his attention. I guess that he will create a readme that gives proper credit to TSCP. As a side note, I find that Tom is very happy with programs that borrow from or even clone TSCP as long as they give proper credit -- almost as a proud father.

[Dave Mitchell]

The header file list is a very weak supporter of his assertion - but the rest of the code he posted in his assertion that NGplay_61 has code from TSCP, is quite compelling. Leaves no doubt in my mind that it drew heavily from TSCP, at some time.

[syzygy]

I suggest the following:
1. Read and examine the entire contents of the full post.
2. Read and examine TSCP and NGPlay_61 yourself.

If those things are not enough to convince you then you are not as smart as I thought you were.

This is starting to sound like "one piece of evidence says nothing, but many things (that say nothing...) do...". Where did I hear that before. What fits the picture even better is the immediate personal attack ("you are not so smart as I thought you were") following it.

Whatever is the truth here, awarding any probative value to the order of some of the most common include files is just plain silly.

[User923005]

Sure, the author of the include header list was joking.
But I wasn't. Clearly you failed to read my posts in the thread or you failed to understand them.
I have made my point. If you failed to comprehend it, that is on you.

[User923005]

The header file list is a very weak supporter of his assertion - but the rest of the code he posted in his assertion that NGplay_61 has code from TSCP, is quite compelling. Leaves no doubt in my mind that it drew heavily from TSCP, at some time.

It is obvious that the person who posted the list of headers was joking. But the fact that a windows program unnecessarily sets the signal handler to ignore control-C (which is needed by xboard on Linux but without purpose on Windows) and because it was done in exactly the same manner and location as in TSCP was the point I was making in the thread.

I guess my humor was a little too dry.

For those who are still not convinced, look at the book code in both programs.

The "share and enjoy" bit is not a winboard/xboard command nor a UCI command. It is something invented by TSCP.
It could be a tribute to TSCP by the original author, taken by itself. But together with the other things I saw, there is no question in my mind whatsoever.
Note, I have not accused the author of NGplay_61 of wrongdoing, and the one thing I said he should do is to make a readme giving credit to Tom. I stand by that.